Will this proposal stop bullying?

[dvbuk55]

Fishtank name any company in the UK who has opened its doors to allow an independent inquiry into bullying and harrassment . There is not one. The union tried but the company said no , what can we do go on strike to get one ?

Now with regards to bullying last year I know what was happening Royal Mail were introducing unagreed standards and when indivduals were not completing the tasks they were taking them off their whole days pay.

Of course bullying goes on in other forms , but lets be honest that is not just by managers there is plenty of bullying from member to member as well.

Look I would love to say that we will never see anymore bullying in the industry but I have worked in the industry for close on 26 years and it has always occured .

Agreed standards are covered twice in the agreement 1 under productivity I think its page 17 and once under measurement systems and thats on page 23.

Now the workshops started today and will continue the rest of the week.

Dvbuk there is nothing wrong with the geo route prinicipal it is used throughout the world. The problem is that Royal Mail alters the planning values which are then unrealistic. So for instance they have reduced walking speeds and increased time you have for attendance calls under geo route 2008 but then have altered other planning values to counter balance those changes which are then unrealistic. The union however now has a chance to test these unrealistic standards in a live environment with full access to the tool something we have never had previously.

Now getting back to the original question will this proposal stop bullying well it wont stop bullying in total but it should stop people getting bullied by unagreed standards and then taken off pay.

Thats what was the main factor last year as that is why that was contained in the interim agreement.

I'm not going to bang on about bullying because I believe enough people on here have stated quite clearly it goes on now and will go on in the future and NOTHING will stop it.

But geo route. I didn't say that geo route as a tool was not useful, we have already had a geo route revision almost two years ago, which should have been reviewed of course and never was. However what I did say was that the system itself was not designed for this country with this system and that you cannot dispute. More emphasis should be placed on human input over machine results instead of the opposite way round. This in itself causes a tendency to "bully" people into producing what the system says you can and what is practical in reality.

[andy2007]

Fishtank name any company in the UK who has opened its doors to allow an independent inquiry into bullying and harrassment . There is not one. The union tried but the company said no , what can we do go on strike to get one ?

Now with regards to bullying last year I know what was happening Royal Mail were introducing unagreed standards and when indivduals were not completing the tasks they were taking them off their whole days pay.

Of course bullying goes on in other forms , but lets be honest that is not just by managers there is plenty of bullying from member to member as well.

Look I would love to say that we will never see anymore bullying in the industry but I have worked in the industry for close on 26 years and it has always occured .

Agreed standards are covered twice in the agreement 1 under productivity I think its page 17 and once under measurement systems and thats on page 23.

Now the workshops started today and will continue the rest of the week.

Dvbuk there is nothing wrong with the geo route prinicipal it is used throughout the world. The problem is that Royal Mail alters the planning values which are then unrealistic. So for instance they have reduced walking speeds and increased time you have for attendance calls under geo route 2008 but then have altered other planning values to counter balance those changes which are then unrealistic. The union however now has a chance to test these unrealistic standards in a live environment with full access to the tool something we have never had previously.

Now getting back to the original question will this proposal stop bullying well it wont stop bullying in total but it should stop people getting bullied by unagreed standards and then taken off pay.

Thats what was the main factor last year as that is why that was contained in the interim agreement.

What about the ones that Teebs told us about, at the bottom of page 1 of this thread?
The NHS (2 examples provided)
Waterways Ireland
University of Bradford

[Martin Walsh]

Andy there is a difference in review a particular area in the company and review the whole company.

For instance we have had ACAS IR and ER reviews which are independent in many offices , we have also had a review in Oxford carried out by an independent company Success factors .

The difference is that to have a review of the whole of Royal Mail who are the second biggest employer in the Uk has never happened.

Equally if it did then the same rules would apply as in the Waterways of Ireland incident as it the information would not be put in the public domain so therefore the members would not neccessary be reassured.

As someone who have been involved with about 30 independent industrial relations and employee relations reviews they largely just review what has taken place and tries to adrress this going forward and provides recommendations.

Surely the National Agreement in the way of the new relationship does that. Equally I cant remember the last time certainly not when we had Crozier , Leighton , John Roberts , Mick Linsell did we have a letter from a senior manager like Higson stating that they wanted to work with the union and members in a way which is new and different. Yes we can all be sceptical but we have to test that in praticse.

[dvbuk55]

Andy there is a difference in review a particular area in the company and review the whole company.

For instance we have had ACAS IR and ER reviews which are independent in many offices , we have also had a review in Oxford carried out by an independent company Success factors .

The difference is that to have a review of the whole of Royal Mail who are the second biggest employer in the Uk has never happened.

Equally if it did then the same rules would apply as in the Waterways of Ireland incident as it the information would not be put in the public domain so therefore the members would not neccessary be reassured.

As someone who have been involved with about 30 independent industrial relations and employee relations reviews they largely just review what has taken place and tries to adrress this going forward and provides recommendations.

Surely the National Agreement in the way of the new relationship does that. Equally I cant remember the last time certainly not when we had Crozier , Leighton , John Roberts , Mick Linsell did we have a letter from a senior manager like Higson stating that they wanted to work with the union and members in a way which is new and different. Yes we can all be sceptical but we have to test that in praticse.

Yes indeed dingo - shame you aren't the ones doing the testing!

[Union Man]

Ther are too many bullying managers in Royal Mail for it to be just coincedence.It has to be a management style that has been adopted by Leighton and Croziers philosophy and sycophantic underlings,who think such behaviour "Gets Results"!And to underscore this misguided philosophy the area Chieftans pump up the adrennalin levals of sub-standard DO managers by linking their thinking to nothing more than GREED.i.e. the more I save for my beloved Chiefs the more I pocket in bonuses.This then has to develope into a self perpetuating virus that will only be broken by the removal of the presant regime and all of its vile institutions.Unfortunatly this is why we will never be able to build any sort of Trust whilst the same second rate indivduals still hold any sway in this industry.If we had not had a Union and by that I mean Us not the leadership they would have had no hesitation in stomping all over us for their own gain.Just a thought!

[andy2007]

Andy there is a difference in review a particular area in the company and review the whole company.

For instance we have had ACAS IR and ER reviews which are independent in many offices , we have also had a review in Oxford carried out by an independent company Success factors .

The difference is that to have a review of the whole of Royal Mail who are the second biggest employer in the Uk has never happened.

Equally if it did then the same rules would apply as in the Waterways of Ireland incident as it the information would not be put in the public domain so therefore the members would not neccessary be reassured.

As someone who have been involved with about 30 independent industrial relations and employee relations reviews they largely just review what has taken place and tries to adrress this going forward and provides recommendations.

Surely the National Agreement in the way of the new relationship does that. Equally I cant remember the last time certainly not when we had Crozier , Leighton , John Roberts , Mick Linsell did we have a letter from a senior manager like Higson stating that they wanted to work with the union and members in a way which is new and different. Yes we can all be sceptical but we have to test that in praticse.

Thanks Dingo, it makes sense now.

I agree, that in principle, the deal on offer should rectify the situation. But we've been given similar promises in the past, which haven't come to fruition. Personally, I don't hold out much hope, without something much more specific about B&H. But if the deal does come in, and I'm proved wrong, I'd be delighted.

[taz1973]

Hi to all , i'll give you all a senario and maybe someone can tell me what it is classed as , as i feel confused with this company an feel like im going lose my lid with the manager i have!!!
Last week saturday i was asked to work my day off, so i accepted. I went in as normal at 0530 and finished just shy of 1330.( because the round is mahussive1!! ) When i booked my hours i wrote down 8 hours as you normally would by nature only to be told that he is only going to be paying me 7 hours for my day off . So i told him that he should of told me prior to this and i would of come in 1 hour late and also would of cut off. He then went on to tell me that he had told me in the past (not) and it wasnt his problem. Now i really think that he could of at least honoured the payment of 1 HOUR rather than do the stealing and arrogant tactic , as i am going to consider a greivence against the "unproffessional" as the industry i originate from would more be a right hook as you do not treat people in this manner. I am rather disgusted with this man now and feel i cannot look him in the eye anymore. Is this known as a THIEF or a BULLY ?
Do i really need to go through the channels or would human resources take any notice of this ?

[hatetheboss]

He is obliged to pay the hours you have worked by law, if he refuses, bang in a grievance and go down that channel to get what is rightfully yours.

[DGP1]

Hi to all , i'll give you all a senario and maybe someone can tell me what it is classed as , as i feel confused with this company an feel like im going lose my lid with the manager i have!!!
Last week saturday i was asked to work my day off, so i accepted. I went in as normal at 0530 and finished just shy of 1330.( because the round is mahussive1!! ) When i booked my hours i wrote down 8 hours as you normally would by nature only to be told that he is only going to be paying me 7 hours for my day off . So i told him that he should of told me prior to this and i would of come in 1 hour late and also would of cut off. He then went on to tell me that he had told me in the past (not) and it wasnt his problem. Now i really think that he could of at least honoured the payment of 1 HOUR rather than do the stealing and arrogant tactic , as i am going to consider a greivence against the "unproffessional" as the industry i originate from would more be a right hook as you do not treat people in this manner. I am rather disgusted with this man now and feel i cannot look him in the eye anymore. Is this known as a THIEF or a BULLY ?
Do i really need to go through the channels or would human resources take any notice of this ?

Don't work your day off again, the problems are all solved then