Will this proposal stop bullying?

[brothermagrew]

Very well said and put brother fishtank

Just as there is an old story about never travelling on an airline that has coffee stains on the foldaway tables. The same management team that has failed to organise the simple task of cleaning the craft in between flights is responsible for maintaining the airframe, servicing the engines and training the pilots.

And:

If there is a problem with an employee, then the real problem is not with the employee, but with the employee's manager, or the manager's manager. Either the problem has not been spotted, or it has but no action has been taken. Whatever the reason, the responsibility of a manager is to ensure that there are no problems with staff from whom he/she is responsible. This holds true all the way to the top.

[fishtank]

Bullying and Harassment

Conference unanimously carried the following motion:-

This conference condemns the misapplication of the bullying and harassment procedure and the corrupt investigations in a number of cases manufactured against the CWU in the workplace, most noticeably in Burslem. These actions are nothing more than union busting tactics being deployed by Royal Mail to target areas of poor industrial relations.

This conference is committed to protecting each workplace from bullying and harassment and agrees the following;

•That a review be conducted at a national level, independently chaired, into the attacks against the CWU in the workplace by Royal Mail carried out under the guise of bullying and harassment.
•That a fundamental review of the bullying and harassment procedure be conducted to achieve;
◦a role for the CWU at the earliest point and a role throughout and not just at the conclusion of a Royal Mail investigation.
◦contact made at Divisional Level immediately when a complaint is made against a CWU Representative or when consideration is being given to a formal investigation against a Representative.
■An end to the corrupt sham of so called ‘independent’ harassment investigators, who are nothing other than Royal Mail managers from a different location, and a return to bullying and harassment issues being dealt with in the workplace by the appropriate manager and CWU Representative.
■Launch a bullying and harassment awareness campaign amongst the membership highlighting Royal Mail’s union busting tactics.

The Postal Executive is instructed accordingly.
Instructed it may have been,bottle it they certainly did.

[andy2007]

It simply is not true my moan is the reverse that if some posters on here spent half the amount of time arguing with their managers then they would not have the terms and conditions they do in their offices. The likes of myself , Lovejoy , the truth walk the walk and dont just talk the talk.

Well done to you for the pay protection issues but the reality is that should have been picked up by your rep as it is in the vast majortity of cases.

Now in terms of Drb comments I think the fact is the national workshops start today and that is a good thing. I must state that i have personally met with both the Peter Harwood and John Woods and it is not their role to write the words of an agreement it is their role to ensure that both sides agree words which are accepted to both sides and more importantly it is their role to oversee the workshops.

I know for a fact that Bob Gibson has asked for acas assitance at the workshop as they have wrote the guidelines on BSI and have experts in the field.

Dingo, I'm sorry to say, that you couldn't be further from the reality that a great many of us face every day. Workshops will of course improve things. But they won't deal with those who abuse their position, and cause such major problems for Posties up and down the Country. An independant investigation, would.

for example: There have been cases of Reps being suspended, and even sacked, on trumped up charges, because they stood up to Management. And I know people who've stood up to Managers, over serious issues, and faced false accusations too. I personally know 2 people, who've suffered serious problems with depression, because of this type of treatment. Which is why an independant investigation IS VITAL. AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN INCLUDED IN THE DEAL!!!!!

I'm sorry to be so harsh about it. But you seem to be lucky enough to be from an area where this type of thing doesn't happen much, if at all. Unless it's because of arguments about work rates. I was once that lucky too. But things have changed for the worse!

[drb]

I agree Andy.I have experienced this myself as has/is our rep.

[Martin Walsh]

Andy I to know reps who have been targeted but there is a different conduct code for union reps . The problem I was making is that royal mail were not willing to agree an independent review into bullying and harrassment and the union did try. Most of the bullying during the dispute last year was down to managers introducing unagreed standards. Plus let's be honest lord sawed carried out a review into bullying in royal mail in 2001 and things hardly improved after that . The agreement does introduce agreed standards and a review into hr procedures and heralds a new relationship.

[realmichael]

The agreement does introduce agreed standards and a review into hr procedures and heralds a new relationship.[/quote]

can you please point me in the direction of these agreed standards please

[General Mannerheim]

The agreement does introduce agreed standards and a review into hr procedures and heralds a new relationship.

can you please point me in the direction of these agreed standards please[/quote]

Yeah more ambiguous bullshit.

[fishtank]

Andy I to know reps who have been targeted but there is a different conduct code for union reps .

No help for the ordinary member.

The problem I was making is that royal mail were not willing to agree an independent review into bullying and harrassment and the union did try.

Not hard enough in my opinion...so we just drop it?

Most of the bullying during the dispute last year was down to managers introducing unagreed standards.

Again your opinion and experience and not one i share.

Plus let's be honest lord sawed carried out a review into bullying in royal mail in 2001 and things hardly improved after that .

A very narrow review that did not even look at delivery offices or their related problems.

The agreement does introduce agreed standards and a review into hr procedures

agreed by who,certainly not the membership and just when will we get to see them?

and heralds a new relationship.

As did P&M2007.......

[ashadd]

Royal Mail...ZERO tolerence on BULLYING ?...........MY FECKIN ARSE .......and it never will be.

[banddy]

i see the argument from both sides, but i certainly have witnessed :-

deliveries being "tested" but no two tests are done the same way.

people being accused of not meeting the "correct" standards.

people being in a situation where they have had no alternative than go off with stress, thus resulting in them going down the attendance procedure, and once you are on the attendance procedure, there isn't anything you can do to save your job.
you can go to an employment tribunal - win your case - and you still won't get your job back.

same with the conduct code.
how many people have been down the conduct code for not being able to complete their delivery within their duty time -
to find they are being charged with wilful delay!?

it is time we had an independent investigation into the institutional bullying and harassment that goes on.
it's the ONLY way to address these particular issues.

[dvbuk55]

The problem with you people who are bullied is to get off your knees, do you think this is a nanny union, eh dingo?

We have all witnessed workplace bullying. The weaker members coerced into overtime they don't want to do, walk testing carried out 4 times, each time with an independent park and loop partnership, the end result was the duty was pared down - but only after months of the incumbents repeatedly being warned that their performance was below standard. Setting a trap to catch a postman only to find they had snared the wrong man. This may not be systematic corporate bullying but it does go on in the workplace most of it unreported and why? - because the victim is afraid of reprisal.

The problem with geo route and any other "artificial intelligence" to set standards is that it is not human. Have we moved so far along the technological age that we no longer believe people when they say that the workload is too great and believe a computer program designed more than a decade ago in a country not remotely like our own for a system totally unlike our own.

You do make statements you cannot substantiate and that is the sign of a union that is desperate to maintain a stance it cannot sustain in the long term. You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time.

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank name any company in the UK who has opened its doors to allow an independent inquiry into bullying and harrassment . There is not one. The union tried but the company said no , what can we do go on strike to get one ?

Now with regards to bullying last year I know what was happening Royal Mail were introducing unagreed standards and when indivduals were not completing the tasks they were taking them off their whole days pay.

Of course bullying goes on in other forms , but lets be honest that is not just by managers there is plenty of bullying from member to member as well.

Look I would love to say that we will never see anymore bullying in the industry but I have worked in the industry for close on 26 years and it has always occured .

Agreed standards are covered twice in the agreement 1 under productivity I think its page 17 and once under measurement systems and thats on page 23.

Now the workshops started today and will continue the rest of the week.

Dvbuk there is nothing wrong with the geo route prinicipal it is used throughout the world. The problem is that Royal Mail alters the planning values which are then unrealistic. So for instance they have reduced walking speeds and increased time you have for attendance calls under geo route 2008 but then have altered other planning values to counter balance those changes which are then unrealistic. The union however now has a chance to test these unrealistic standards in a live environment with full access to the tool something we have never had previously.

Now getting back to the original question will this proposal stop bullying well it wont stop bullying in total but it should stop people getting bullied by unagreed standards and then taken off pay.

Thats what was the main factor last year as that is why that was contained in the interim agreement.

[k979aaa]

For me this was the single biggest issuse for i have no problem working my hours but doing ten hours work in eight i do have a big problem with!. For i do not want to be royalmails cash cow lead to the slaughter for their profit and my loss!.

[fishtank]

An ill postwoman was bullied by bosses into working yesterday – while recovering from a savage Doberman attack a day earlier.
Marie Stout, 42, was given an anti-tetanus jab and antibiotics at hospital after a vicious leg bite and ordered to rest at home.
But when she phoned in ill yesterday, a manager drove to her home 30 miles away to force her into work. The mum of one – with 20 years’ loyal service at Royal Mail – was so upset she arrived in tears.
Marie, of Stevenage, Herts, said: “It was horrendous. I was at home resting, the next minute I was driven to work against my will.
“It was as if they didn’t believe there was anything wrong with me. I feel you could have one of your limbs hanging off and they would still want you to come to work.
“I’m not a skiver. I’ve hardly had a day off sick in 20 years. When I got to work people couldn’t believe it.”
Her 77,000 fellow delivery and collection workers nationwide are due to strike on Saturday following stoppages by other Royal Mail staff yesterday and today.

But union chiefs say it shows how bosses are intimidating employees in the bitter dispute, over modernising the service.
John Cotier, a CWU rep at her delivery centre in Hampstead, North London, said: “She was too frightened to say no when the manager turned up on her doorstep.
“When she arrived at work she was crying, shaking, very upset and stressed. I told the manager it was ridiculous and he should take her home, which he eventually did.”
The union is making a formal complaint. A spokesman said: “This proves the extreme pressure people are under. It’s why we have repeatedly asked for an independent inquiry into bullying and harassment but for some strange reason Royal Mail keep refusing.”The Mirror last week told how the organisation has postponed a November anti-bullying drive until next year.
A spokesman said it had clear policies for dealing with the 5,000 animal attacks on posties each year. He said: “Royal Mail does everything possible to support attack victims.
“We would never force people to come to work when they are not well.”

Sod all to do with standards agreed or otherwise.
And when exactly will this anti-bullying drive take place now,posponed indefinitely i heard.
That all this and the thousands of cases like this will now be swept under the carpet AGAIN is to the unions deep shame.

[realmichael]

the ballot should have taken place after the workshops had run their course not before ! and why is that?