Proposed shift patterns

[drb]

I find the DOM's only do what they are told.I normally get corespondance from them to HQ and show them.Once they go into the conferance call they come out and say "You were right". If he asks you about "budgets",download this,print it off :

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?xno2vymwywk

[pickaname]

Dingo , can you please clarify that DOMs et al will not impose what duty structure they want. Is it a concrete fact that the agreement will allow staff to choose the duty structure from this menu of options?

Also, what exacly do you mean by self funding. Does this mean, for example, a 10 hour day/4 day week would come from a juggling of the 39 hours/5 day week and not from lapsing/absorption?

I ask this beacuse our DOM hates us and would deliberately choose the least palatable option from said menu.

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo , can you please clarify that DOMs et al will not impose what duty structure they want. Is it a concrete fact that the agreement will allow staff to choose the duty structure from this menu of options?

Also, what exacly do you mean by self funding. Does this mean, for example, a 10 hour day/4 day week would come from a juggling of the 39 hours/5 day week and not from lapsing/absorption?

I ask this beacuse our DOM hates us and would deliberately choose the least palatable option from said menu.

Yes I can confirm the first thing an office does prior to the revison is to survey the office on the attendances which they would like that is on page 31 of the agreement. The attendances are for everyone to have and the menu of options will be available for indivduals to look at.

What I mean by self funded is at the moment the majority of the workforce is on a 5 day rotating rest day with a rest day cover. So in essence 6 duties covering 5 walks over 6 days..

Under a 4 day week you would still have the same number of jobs but you need two rest day covers. So you have 6 duties covering 4 walks over 6 days.

No jobs are lost as a result of moving to better attendances but you do need to fund rest day covers.

[Big Daz]

I do a 5 day week and with me are 4 others covered by the same floater, we could reduce the 5 duties down to 4 and introduce a 4 day week, the person who is displaced become the new floater covering the 2nd day off.

That is self financing, same amount of work with the same amount of people, nowt wrong with that if thats what OPG's/Mbrs want.

[fishtank]

I do a 5 day week and with me are 4 others covered by the same floater, we could reduce the 5 duties down to 4 and introduce a 4 day week, the person who is displaced become the new floater covering the 2nd day off.

That is self financing, same amount of work with the same amount of people, nowt wrong with that if thats what OPG's/Mbrs want.

Not really the same amount of work Daz.
The majority of these items on the menu have one thing in common...bigger duties and longer deliveries...sorry that's two things.

[drb]

The dutys are longer now because the parameters set in geo route are based on budget.Also although they said that they would rectify it...they didn't.It came back the same.It is what you put in it.

Once I overheard a planner tell a manager,"Give me the hours(to input) and I will make it work"

At that time we did not have any input in the planning.

[fishtank]

The dutys are longer now because the parameters set in geo route are based on budget.Also although they said that they would rectify it...they didn't.It came back the same.It is what you put in it.

Once I overheard a planner tell a manager,"Give me the hours(to input) and I will make it work"

At that time we did not have any input in the planning.

No the duties will be longer because in order to move from a 5 day week to a 4 day week you have to absorb part of a duty.
That is what self funding means.

[POSTMAN]

The dutys are longer now because the parameters set in geo route are based on budget.Also although they said that they would rectify it...they didn't.It came back the same.It is what you put in it.

Once I overheard a planner tell a manager,"Give me the hours(to input) and I will make it work"

At that time we did not have any input in the planning.

No the duties will be longer because in order to move from a 5 day week to a 4 day week you have to absorb part of a duty.
That is what self funding means.

But it's worth it,trust me,if it's done properly.

[Big Daz]

Sorry Mr Fishtank

I do not agree with you and again you have misunderstood my posting.

The weekly workload does not change we would still be doing 30 hours, just over 4 days rather than 5 days, sounds very simple concept to me.

Yes the 4 days would be a bigger daily workload, thats obvious to anyone. 7.5 hour day and not a 6 hour day will see more work but that fifth day when im not at work anymore would counter act the extra work .

The weekly workload is compressed not increased.

[Big Daz]

No the duties will be longer because in order to move from a 5 day week to a 4 day week you have to absorb part of a duty.
That is what self funding means.

Nothing wrong with that, are you suggesting CWU mbrs dont realise that once you drop below a 5 day week but stay on the same weekly hours the working day increases in length therefore meaning more daily workload, its not rocket science is it?

[fishtank]

Sorry Mr Fishtank

I do not agree with you and again you have misunderstood my posting.

The weekly workload does not change we would still be doing 30 hours, just over 4 days rather than 5 days, sounds very simple concept to me.

Yes the 4 days would be a bigger daily workload, thats obvious to anyone. 7.5 hour day and not a 6 hour day will see more work but that fifth day when im not at work anymore would counter act the extra work .

The weekly workload is compressed not increased.

Yes Daz but the daily workload IS increased and for full-timers by 2 hrs.
Not all your FT members may be fit to complete a 10 hr day four days in a row.
As you are well aware Daz most members do not think in terms of weekly workload.
Too many reps on here are wetting themselves at the prospect of a 4 day week without fully understanding what it involves.
What time does your mail arrive Daz,What time will it arrive in future?
What time will a 10hr day have to start and what time will it finish?

[drb]

Although I haven't yet worked with the software as yet.I don't know what delivery span it might kick out with the Correct parameters put in.I guess with the workshops we will find out.However let us not compare with the walks we have now as,in my opinion,are wrong.

For example they have you "criss-crossing" roads in which is not very H&S. Also the frames have been designed(by our members by the way),using a private vehicle.

I would have certain members,(or a committee),letting us know every long path,flats etc.Your A plus would also have to be bang up to date too.

[clashcityrocker]

Too many reps on here are wetting themselves at the prospect of a 4 day week without fully understanding what it involves.

I agree Mr Fishtank.
Too many members too.
On the one hand they moan about there being no upper limit on the delivery span.
On the other they want a shorter working week with a possibly longer delivery span.

[dvbuk55]

Too many reps on here are wetting themselves at the prospect of a 4 day week without fully understanding what it involves.

I agree Mr Fishtank.
Too many members too.
On the one hand they moan about there being no upper limit on the delivery span.
On the other they want a shorter working week with a possibly longer delivery span.

I'm with you on one point I do not believe the members realise the implications of the wording of this agreement and haven't really put enough thought into why the wording has been introduced. I do believe it is going to be a very sharp learning curve for some.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

For example they have you "criss-crossing" roads in which is not very H&S.

Agreed with rest so did not quote. However, up here where we have hills sometimes the H&S implications of going up a hill outweigh the H&S concerns of crossing a road. I wonder if its possible to score various aspects so that H&S matters are taken into account.

1. Steepness of hill if any.
2. Width of Road
3. Traffic Levels overall.
4. Traffic levels at specific times (school kick out time etc)

Certainly would help when planning the new revision. But I suspect it will be down to personal choice of the duty holder TBH.