D2D

[Speedydelivery]

Thats what is confusing me too Debs.

I'm a PT and have to prep and deliver all D2D on the walk. A FT has to prep and deliver all D2D on their walk. So why should they get £20 something and me get £12 something? And Fulltime people who work behind the Bar or in the Depo will get £20 something without doing D2D.

Will full timers have to prep part timers D2D to make it more fair?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Thats what is confusing me too Debs.

I'm a PT and have to prep and deliver all D2D on the walk. A FT has to prep and deliver all D2D on their walk. So why should they get £20 something and me get £12 something? And Fulltime people who work behind the Bar or in the Depo will get £20 something without doing D2D.

Will full timers have to prep part timers D2D to make it more fair?

I am at the moment a No voter - but willing to be talked into a Yes but here goes:

There has been a lot of confusion about the delivery supplement and D2Ds and its the fault of who ever wrote this part of it.

To coincide with the introduction of the national agreement unit payments will cease and the 3 items per week cap will be removed. D2D Monies will be turned into a delivery supplement paid 52 weeks a year for all delivery employees (OPG and ORR) pro rata for part time employees.

What this means - and I don't agree with it is:

1. We will NO LONGER be paid for D2Ds in any way.
2. The monies that used to pay for the D2Ds will now pay for the Delivery Supplement based on 40 hours pro rata.

So will FT prep PT D2Ds - NO
Are PTs being paid less for D2Ds - No because no one will be paid for D2Ds.

Is it fair - IMHO NO

[dvbuk55]

Thats what is confusing me too Debs.

I'm a PT and have to prep and deliver all D2D on the walk. A FT has to prep and deliver all D2D on their walk. So why should they get £20 something and me get £12 something? And Fulltime people who work behind the Bar or in the Depo will get £20 something without doing D2D.

Will full timers have to prep part timers D2D to make it more fair?

I am at the moment a No voter - but willing to be talked into a Yes but here goes:

There has been a lot of confusion about the delivery supplement and D2Ds and its the fault of who ever wrote this part of it.

To coincide with the introduction of the national agreement unit payments will cease and the 3 items per week cap will be removed. D2D Monies will be turned into a delivery supplement paid 52 weeks a year for all delivery employees (OPG and ORR) pro rata for part time employees.

What this means - and I don't agree with it is:

1. We will NO LONGER be paid for D2Ds in any way.
2. The monies that used to pay for the D2Ds will now pay for the Delivery Supplement based on 40 hours pro rata.

So will FT prep PT D2Ds - NO
Are PTs being paid less for D2Ds - No because no one will be paid for D2Ds.

Is it fair - IMHO NO

You missed out one other salient point too TBT - will people who don't deliver anything still get the delivery supplement if they work in DOs - YES

[Big Daz]

FT could prep PT DTD

That could be worked into local revisions in order to replace lost indoor work.

For example no way can 30 hour bods in my D.O take on more work indoor or outdoor, so why not have FT prep DTD to fill out some time that has become spare due to less indoor workload, got to be better than more outdoor work?

[gb93]

Why cant 30 hour people take on more outdoor work Big Daz yet FT can (if i have read your post right)

Does everyone not leave office around same time.

And if FT do some of the 30 hours prep wont that leave more scope for outdoor work for them.

[Big Daz]

Why cant 30 hour people take on more outdoor work Big Daz yet FT can (if i have read your post right)

Does everyone not leave office around same time.

And if FT do some of the 30 hours prep wont that leave more scope for outdoor work for them.

Leave the same time

For prep Im referring to leaflets rather than traditional mail, in theroy it might generate a bit more delivery work but not a lot. Its a 5-30 net day and PT in my D.O do full prep so no time left for super sized deliveries. FT with their longer working day do have time for more delivery work than PT, so having them do leaflets would play a part in keeping extra outdoor ork as low as possible.

Most Ft in my office are carve up merchants, showing how much time they have day after day who think they can go going home hours early for infinty and beyond and they think the union should protect that for them

There is some surplus time with some duties but mbrs are making it seem a lot more than what it is.

The DOM is now looking at using the 2007 agreemnt where it says utlise all paid work hours, as all paid work hours are not utlised my grounds for not agreeing with alterations are limited.

I need to use a test on any proposals I get, that being is it safe, is the OPG trained/will be trained, is it achiveable in duty time. If all three can be met then my hands are tied by the IR framework as proposals can not be dissmissed out of hand and a reasoned response must be made if not in agreement. How can i make a reasoned response against if the aforementioned criteria can be met.

[fishtank]

Daz,be very careful.
If i was your DOM i would have your full-timers prepping more than just the part-timers D2D.
The less indoor work left for the P/T staff,the more time for longer deliveries...it's a no-brainer.
It may make more sense if you want to protect your part-timers not to trade away any of their indoor work.

[Steviea34]

Why cant 30 hour people take on more outdoor work Big Daz yet FT can (if i have read your post right)

Does everyone not leave office around same time.

And if FT do some of the 30 hours prep wont that leave more scope for outdoor work for them.

Leave the same time

For prep Im referring to leaflets rather than traditional mail, in theroy it might generate a bit more delivery work but not a lot. Its a 5-30 net day and PT in my D.O do full prep so no time left for super sized deliveries. FT with their longer working day do have time for more delivery work than PT, so having them do leaflets would play a part in keeping extra outdoor ork as low as possible.

Most Ft in my office are carve up merchants, showing how much time they have day after day who think they can go going home hours early for infinty and beyond and they think the union should protect that for them

There is some surplus time with some duties but mbrs are making it seem a lot more than what it is.

The DOM is now looking at using the 2007 agreemnt where it says utlise all paid work hours, as all paid work hours are not utlised my grounds for not agreeing with alterations are limited.

I need to use a test on any proposals I get, that being is it safe, is the OPG trained/will be trained, is it achiveable in duty time. If all three can be met then my hands are tied by the IR framework as proposals can not be dissmissed out of hand and a reasoned response must be made if not in agreement. How can i make a reasoned response against if the aforementioned criteria can be met.

This is why the business is inefficient F/T with 3.5hr dels, what a joke, next you will be suggesting they also have a 10hr,4 day week

[dvbuk55]

Daz,be very careful.
If i was your DOM i would have your full-timers prepping more than just the part-timers D2D.
The less indoor work left for the P/T staff,the more time for longer deliveries...it's a no-brainer.
It may make more sense if you want to protect your part-timers not to trade away any of their indoor work.

Bang on the nail ft, that is exactly what happens in our DO, you have to reconcile the indoor work with the overall workplan - we have many part timers who come in to a completed frame just to bundle up and go - 5 hour day 3.5 hour delivery, add to that the walk sequencing which is on its way and it quickly becomes obvious why the delivery span has become an enabler. I've said it before offices like mine have less to fear than those with a 10 hour shift with a 3.5 hour delivery span - old Dylan had a song that so sums it up - For the times they are a changing.

There's another little fillip that will rear its head but I don't want to be accused of even more scare mongering.

[Big Daz]

Daz,be very careful.
If i was your DOM i would have your full-timers prepping more than just the part-timers D2D.
The less indoor work left for the P/T staff,the more time for longer deliveries...it's a no-brainer.
It may make more sense if you want to protect your part-timers not to trade away any of their indoor work.

You have misunderstood, their is no time for any more work either outdoor or indoor on a 30 hour week duty at my D.O

With more DTD and DTD into workload adjustements will be needed,the new workload palnning values may see deliveries altered that could be less delivery points or FT prepping DTD into the frame. Something to explore in the revsion. Still there is nine months left to go before a revision is implemented at my D.O, so plenty of time to think options and decide which is the best.


All this if i was your DOMis just bonkers, there is such a thing as a CWU Rep and I certainly wont be agreeing to move PT to delivery only status.

You really must understand that it will not be a case of what the DOM wants the DOM gets and implements with or without CWU backing. My DOM would have done that long ago if that was his style. There are a few operational changes he is thinking about and wishes to disscuss with me and try and reach agreement on. For example the Callers office needs more manpower on a saturday and their is the ever increasing housing growth that needs covering. The solutions may just make mbrs wish they had listened to the do the job properley campaign, especially as 2007 says utilise all paid work hours.

[Big Daz]

Why cant 30 hour people take on more outdoor work Big Daz yet FT can (if i have read your post right)

Does everyone not leave office around same time.

And if FT do some of the 30 hours prep wont that leave more scope for outdoor work for them.

Leave the same time

For prep Im referring to leaflets rather than traditional mail, in theroy it might generate a bit more delivery work but not a lot. Its a 5-30 net day and PT in my D.O do full prep so no time left for super sized deliveries. FT with their longer working day do have time for more delivery work than PT, so having them do leaflets would play a part in keeping extra outdoor ork as low as possible.

Most Ft in my office are carve up merchants, showing how much time they have day after day who think they can go going home hours early for infinty and beyond and they think the union should protect that for them

There is some surplus time with some duties but mbrs are making it seem a lot more than what it is.

The DOM is now looking at using the 2007 agreemnt where it says utlise all paid work hours, as all paid work hours are not utlised my grounds for not agreeing with alterations are limited.

I need to use a test on any proposals I get, that being is it safe, is the OPG trained/will be trained, is it achiveable in duty time. If all three can be met then my hands are tied by the IR framework as proposals can not be dissmissed out of hand and a reasoned response must be made if not in agreement. How can i make a reasoned response against if the aforementioned criteria can be met.

This is why the business is inefficient F/T with 3.5hr dels, what a joke, next you will be suggesting they also have a 10hr,4 day week

Not much desire if any amongst FT for the 4 day week, due to the longer day that comes with it.

It is less IPS mail due to walksorted mail increasing that has made duties inefficent and longs and short does not help either.

[Danelectro]

Not much desire if any amongst FT for the 4 day week, due to the longer day that comes with it.

It is less IPS mail due to walksorted mail increasing that has made duties inefficent and longs and short does not help either.

Thats why the more saturdays off option is a poison chalice,10 hour days are gonna put most older members in the postie graveyard.The way we are gonna have to work to keep our contracted hours is like breaking rocks in prison in the vain hope of an early release.

[gb93]

Big Daz does 30 PT and FT have same del span in your office i.e. 3 hours 30 mins.

Is the last letter time the same for 30 PT and FT i.e. 14.00.

Are 30 PT and FT duty structures based on same 1st letter last letter times.

If the answers to above are yes explain to me why FT have more scope for more outdoor work than 30 PT.

To me at 1st sight you seem keen to protect 30 PT at expense of the majority of your office.

And 1 last thing "leave at the same time " why not ? surely a strong rep would make this happen.

I could be making too many assumptions. I am prepared to be given facts.

[Eric]

Now let me see if I have got this right.... In areas where the delivery of D2Ds has been so bad that they have lost all the contracts for those deliveries the postmen will be rewarded with a weekly payment of £20.60 and presumably will still not get any D2Ds to deliver, whereas in areas where postmen have been conscientiously delivering their D2Ds they will be penalised by getting even more to deliver for less money than they currently get.

RM intend to drive up quality, so they will not be rewarded for doing nothing.

And you seriously expect companies to believe RM when they say things are going to get better? I am afraid no one outside the CWU is that gullible! Companies that have had their fingers burnt in the past when their leaflets have not been delivered will take a long time to be convinced that they should use RM again but posties in those areas will still be getting their £20.60 a week.

[Big Daz]

Big Daz does 30 PT and FT have same del span in your office i.e. 3 hours 30 mins.

Is the last letter time the same for 30 PT and FT i.e. 14.00.

No, 30 hour PT are 0645 to 1245 for attendance, we prep our own deliveries. 30 hous PT came into being with pegasus before that they were 28 hour PT and the original PT contracts (before I became a rep) were 0530 start with 28 hour contract Prior to the flying horse I was the only 30 hour PT (Buy down of hours)

Are 30 PT and FT duty structures based on same 1st letter last letter times.

No, there are a range of start times/finish times for FT duties. The general rule is, you cant leave the D.O untill the manager gives the all clear which is based on all duties having completed sorting mail into the RM 2000 frame and missorts brought round to the missort frame. There isa lot of internal missorts from IPS mail.

If the answers to above are yes explain to me why FT have more scope for more outdoor work than 30 PT.

The reason is a 30 hour PT delivery and a 40 hour FT delivery are virtually identical, the basics are a FT urban bike delivery duty with no IPS. IPS lasts from 60 to 75 mins 99.9% of the time. Today it was 65 mins. Today for some is a 9 hour day.
Urban bike deliveries are all pegasus designed,with a bit of manual tweaking. I also base my assement on the reality of what I see with my own eyes day after day and that is there are FT duties that do not have enough work to fill out their working day. Of course that can be filled with indoor work, but where from?

Today is a long day due to longs and shorts and the IPS lasted for 65 mins, that leaves FT urbans whose day off is Thursday or Friday and are on a 9 hour day. The FT I just mentioned had 7 hours 15 mins for prep deliver and travel/out/back,a whopping 1 hour 45 mins more to prep deliver and travel/out/back than the 30 hour PT who after MR are left with 5 hours 30 mins for prep travel and delivery.

In terms of delivery span all duties are according to pegasus around 3 hours 15 mins somea bit less, so how can the FT end up with so much more work time. Either the have too much or the 30 hours not enough.
To me at 1st sight you seem keen to protect 30 PT at expense of the majority of your office.

Not at all, I want to see every person whether they be FT or PT start on time and work ata fair and acheivable pace and go home on time.

And 1 last thing "leave at the same time " why not ? surely a strong rep would make this happen.

Not possible, two urban bike duty holders are 5am start so therefore finsh earlier therefore need to be out of the D.O sooner.

2 firms duties start at 0530 so again a earlier finsh time.

Rurals are 7 hours 30 mins day on Monday and Tuesday and Saturday 8 hours 45 mins on the two days they are in from Wednesday to Friday. Urbans are 9 hour day.

Urban bike rounds 6am start with fixed saturday off have a earlier finish time so comes off IPS before those witha weekday off, therefore are ready to go earlier. Prior to longs and shorts they were straight 8's but those duties with a weekday off havea shorter saturday as per SDD agreement, that then creates duties with attendance being more than 8 hours so there is a difference in finish times.

If your day off is a short day, then you have less hours to be redeployed throughout the rest of the week, thus creating a earlier finsh time.

All that is why we all go out at different times, the alternative is to adjust start times so as to have everyone finish at the same time.

To make such a change would need a mandate from the mbrs, a mandate which I can assure you they would not give me.


I could be making too many assumptions. I am prepared to be given facts.

That my friend is the facts,enjoy!!