One in four Saturdays off ?

[realmichael]

my way of thinking is 10 hour shifts means longer delivery's, longer delivery's means less delivery's, less delivery's means less postmen or is that just me

[Steviea34]

my way of thinking is 10 hour shifts means longer delivery's, longer delivery's means less delivery's, less delivery's means less postmen or is that just me

SIMPLES

[POSTMAN]

Don't forget the 4 day weekers have less bods in the office than the 5 dayers,that ups the ips time,add part timers and absorb their ips and prep,add certain nights/early starters going that adds more indoor work,then add permanent mon/tue rest days which go out on SA then you absorb more ips and prep.
Edit:also add a mixture of 5 day week duties.

4hr walks

WSM's we'll cross that bridge next year,but we WON'T accept 5hrs let alone 6!

my way of thinking is 10 hour shifts means longer delivery's, longer delivery's means less delivery's, less delivery's means less postmen or is that just me

I've always mention this,to go to 4 days would mean less staff.

[fishtank]

I've always mention this,to go to 4 days would mean less staff.

Only if you use SA for cover surely.

[Glenno]

Postman you mention loosing jobs - can you expand on this issue 4 day weeks= 10 hr days
10 hr days= job losses (1 in 4 maybe 5) are you all full-time in your office?? & if so how many jobs
have you lost in going to a 4 day week??

[POSTMAN]

I've edited my post and added 'also add a mixture of 5 day week duties.'

In London they are using various figures,traffic figures obviousy,ips and prep timings,not sure about other bits.
They (RM) then come up with what goes with those figures,you look at what you want and what they want and come up with a solution,there is a lot of mixing and matching.
It really does depend on your office specs.

At my place we had to jiggle about a bit and swallow some stuff,would rather not go into too much detail about my office for obvious reason,but some of the bits i posted in my last post is in my office.

Originally in 07 we lost i think 2 head counts,but we had vacancies so wasn't a major problem,if you have full staffing then it becomes a problem.

To go to 4hrs from 3:30hrs you could lose 1 job for every 4 duties roughly.

Things would be slightly different now because D2D will be in your traffic figures.

But each 4 day office is and would be different in various ways.

[dvbuk55]

Lovejoy suggested that he had spoken to 20 hour part timers who would love to work Friday and Saturday as 10 hours days - funny that because we have loads of 20 hour part timers and yet not a single one thought that was a good idea - they thought 2 10 hour days was good - though they hadn't actually thought about how long the delivery span would be - when suggested that it would probably be 6 hours ish, they weren't at all enthusiastic.

Though I must admit there are scenarios in our particular office that could combine collections and deliveries, though I wouldn't suggest it.

Why would you suggest 6hr ish!!! Where the feck has that come from?

Well what would you suggest would be reasonable on a 10 hour shift without a delineated delivery span? There are two trains of thought that brought me to that figure, where would you find the indoor work to sustain less than that ds and more especially so when the walk sequenced machinery is in and running? And of course the CDVs which currently attract a 4 hour 15 delivery span on an 8 hour shift - so 6 hrs? not an unrealistic figure

This agreement is not just about the immediate future postman but the introduction of this machinery on which we have a great deal riding not least of all £800 when it's all finished and there's the rub - where is the machinery and when is the roll out - not sure? - well apparently no one is quite sure. We should be careful in deliveries that we do not over egg the hours on the unsequenced revision because when the sequenced revision comes in those hours will need to be paid back under the, as yet indetermined, savings from the wsm.

[Steviea34]

I've edited my post and added 'also add a mixture of 5 day week duties.'

In London they are using various figures,traffic figures obviousy,ips and prep timings,not sure about other bits.
They (RM) then come up with what goes with those figures,you look at what you want and what they want and come up with a solution,there is a lot of mixing and matching.
It really does depend on your office specs.

At my place we had to jiggle about a bit and swallow some stuff,would rather not go into too much detail about my office for obvious reason,but some of the bits i posted in my last post is in my office.

Originally in 07 we lost i think 2 head counts,but we had vacancies so wasn't a major problem,if you have full staffing then it becomes a problem.

To go to 4hrs from 3:30hrs you could lose 1 job for every 4 duties roughly.

Things would be slightly different now because D2D will be in your traffic figures.

But each 4 day office is and would be different in various ways.

We must get flogged like Donkeys, dels already over 4.15 hrs, F//T, 1.30 ips+40 min M/R + APPROX 1.40 PREP

[postietaz]

sounds ;ike a period
:mfo

[POSTMAN]

Lovejoy suggested that he had spoken to 20 hour part timers who would love to work Friday and Saturday as 10 hours days - funny that because we have loads of 20 hour part timers and yet not a single one thought that was a good idea - they thought 2 10 hour days was good - though they hadn't actually thought about how long the delivery span would be - when suggested that it would probably be 6 hours ish, they weren't at all enthusiastic.

Though I must admit there are scenarios in our particular office that could combine collections and deliveries, though I wouldn't suggest it.

Why would you suggest 6hr ish!!! Where the feck has that come from?

Well what would you suggest would be reasonable on a 10 hour shift without a delineated delivery span? There are two trains of thought that brought me to that figure, where would you find the indoor work to sustain less than that ds and more especially so when the walk sequenced machinery is in and running? And of course the CDVs which currently attract a 4 hour 15 delivery span on an 8 hour shift - so 6 hrs? not an unrealistic figure

This agreement is not just about the immediate future postman but the introduction of this machinery on which we have a great deal riding not least of all £800 when it's all finished and there's the rub - where is the machinery and when is the roll out - not sure? - well apparently no one is quite sure. We should be careful in deliveries that we do not over egg the hours on the unsequenced revision because when the sequenced revision comes in those hours will need to be paid back under the, as yet indetermined, savings from the wsm.

I think dv and you knows i loves ya,but you're getting ahead of your self,you are scaremongering your colleagues.
Even your figures are wrong,how are you going to prep and extra 1:45 mins work in 15 mins.Actually it's less than 15mins if you add on the extra break time you get on 10hrs.

And you can't use the WSM's as an argument for that prepping.

And of course the CDVs which currently attract a 4 hour 15 delivery span on an 8 hour shift - so 6 hrs? not an unrealistic figure

Wait for the official tools and guideline me thinks.

[Steviea34]

Lovejoy suggested that he had spoken to 20 hour part timers who would love to work Friday and Saturday as 10 hours days - funny that because we have loads of 20 hour part timers and yet not a single one thought that was a good idea - they thought 2 10 hour days was good - though they hadn't actually thought about how long the delivery span would be - when suggested that it would probably be 6 hours ish, they weren't at all enthusiastic.

Though I must admit there are scenarios in our particular office that could combine collections and deliveries, though I wouldn't suggest it.

Why would you suggest 6hr ish!!! Where the feck has that come from?

Well what would you suggest would be reasonable on a 10 hour shift without a delineated delivery span? There are two trains of thought that brought me to that figure, where would you find the indoor work to sustain less than that ds and more especially so when the walk sequenced machinery is in and running? And of course the CDVs which currently attract a 4 hour 15 delivery span on an 8 hour shift - so 6 hrs? not an unrealistic figure

This agreement is not just about the immediate future postman but the introduction of this machinery on which we have a great deal riding not least of all £800 when it's all finished and there's the rub - where is the machinery and when is the roll out - not sure? - well apparently no one is quite sure. We should be careful in deliveries that we do not over egg the hours on the unsequenced revision because when the sequenced revision comes in those hours will need to be paid back under the, as yet indetermined, savings from the wsm.

I think dv and you knows i loves ya,but you're getting ahead of your self,you are scaremongering your colleagues.
Even your figures are wrong,how are you going to prep and extra 1:45 mins work in 15 mins.Actually it's less than 15mins if you add on the extra break time you get on 10hrs.

And you can't use the WSM's as an argument for that prepping.

And of course the CDVs which currently attract a 4 hour 15 delivery span on an 8 hour shift - so 6 hrs? not an unrealistic figure

Wait for the official tools and guideline me thinks.

Ooh matron!!,the feelings mutual, not trying to scaremonger though, i just cannot see how one in 4 is achievable without sacrificing
something. I think we both know 1 in 4 will have to be self funded one way or another, after all if the business had agreed to fund it
we would not be having this debate & everybody would be looking forward to a 1 in 4, as for a 10hr day, if your unit would not receive
W/S mail until late on in the morning, or at the earliest a 6am start this would in theory mean you would need to work till 4pm, now even if you
could bolt a collection to the end of a duty, i have been told the network/M.C's will not be changing the time on a SAT they receive their
outward mails for dispatch, therefore current SAT collection times/dispatches will remain as current

[dvbuk55]

Lovejoy suggested that he had spoken to 20 hour part timers who would love to work Friday and Saturday as 10 hours days - funny that because we have loads of 20 hour part timers and yet not a single one thought that was a good idea - they thought 2 10 hour days was good - though they hadn't actually thought about how long the delivery span would be - when suggested that it would probably be 6 hours ish, they weren't at all enthusiastic.

Though I must admit there are scenarios in our particular office that could combine collections and deliveries, though I wouldn't suggest it.

Why would you suggest 6hr ish!!! Where the feck has that come from?

Well what would you suggest would be reasonable on a 10 hour shift without a delineated delivery span? There are two trains of thought that brought me to that figure, where would you find the indoor work to sustain less than that ds and more especially so when the walk sequenced machinery is in and running? And of course the CDVs which currently attract a 4 hour 15 delivery span on an 8 hour shift - so 6 hrs? not an unrealistic figure

This agreement is not just about the immediate future postman but the introduction of this machinery on which we have a great deal riding not least of all £800 when it's all finished and there's the rub - where is the machinery and when is the roll out - not sure? - well apparently no one is quite sure. We should be careful in deliveries that we do not over egg the hours on the unsequenced revision because when the sequenced revision comes in those hours will need to be paid back under the, as yet undetermined, savings from the wsm.

I think dv and you knows i loves ya,but you're getting ahead of your self,you are scaremongering your colleagues.
Even your figures are wrong,how are you going to prep and extra 1:45 mins work in 15 mins.Actually it's less than 15mins if you add on the extra break time you get on 10hrs.

And you can't use the WSM's as an argument for that prepping.

And of course the CDVs which currently attract a 4 hour 15 delivery span on an 8 hour shift - so 6 hrs? not an unrealistic figure

Wait for the official tools and guideline me thinks.

You think it is scaremongering - the letter deliverys aren't the only thing on the CDV duties? The bulk duties will largely disappear because the large packets will be delivered by the shared duty and will NOT be counted as letter delivery, which I might add will no longer be 3.5 hours, deliveries will be an enabler according to the agreement - now what exactly does anyone think that means? I'm afraid many are thinking that this agreement will be more of the same old same old - it won't.

Now I don't want to fall out with you but the same sort of tactics have been used by those who would purport that this is a good deal - LIKE - RM were going to withdraw D2D anyway, like they were considering another workforce, like they will be putting them all in one packet and you won't get paid - none of those thing substantiated.

[nelp]

We are curently on a 10 hour day the delivery span is around 3.5 hours.

we are undertaking a geo route and again planing on 3.5 span.With the majority on 4 day weeks. We will find indoor work preping P/T walks, taking breaks and people dont start early. Spend time talking in WTLL. If they surgesst stupid things A plus etc then do them that all takes people of the IPS. Also get hold of how long it takes to prep heavier walks and take people off of the IPS. The other factor is gather data on everything you have to call at the door for, this defends 3.5 hour spans. Our average door calls are around 65 items per walk.

[dvbuk55]

We are curently on a 10 hour day the delivery span is around 3.5 hours.

we are undertaking a geo route and again planing on 3.5 span.With the majority on 4 day weeks. We will find indoor work preping P/T walks, taking breaks and people dont start early. Spend time talking in WTLL. If they surgesst stupid things A plus etc then do them that all takes people of the IPS. Also get hold of how long it takes to prep heavier walks and take people off of the IPS. The other factor is gather data on everything you have to call at the door for, this defends 3.5 hour spans. Our average door calls are around 65 items per walk.

Your statement doesn't really surprise me - however, it would be impossible to find indoor work that takes up 6.5 hours outside of London I suspect but I wait for someone from another area to tell me that it is also being carried out anywhere other than Gods Triangle.

People in a normal office on a 30 hour contract would throw their delivery off, bag it and deliver a 3.5 hour delivery in 6 hours - that is a half hour less than you spend indoors.

Under this agreement you will be expected to perform in the top 10% of performance - I'd say you had a fair way to go wouldn't you? Some of the wording in the agreement is particularly interesting now in light of what you have said:


"Both parties are fully committed to all elements of this national agreement and neither will sanction any local negotiations which seek to change the principles or spirit of this agreement and/or make their deployment less effective and/or delay implementation."

[Steviea34]

We are curently on a 10 hour day the delivery span is around 3.5 hours.

we are undertaking a geo route and again planing on 3.5 span.With the majority on 4 day weeks. We will find indoor work preping P/T walks, taking breaks and people dont start early. Spend time talking in WTLL. If they surgesst stupid things A plus etc then do them that all takes people of the IPS. Also get hold of how long it takes to prep heavier walks and take people off of the IPS. The other factor is gather data on everything you have to call at the door for, this defends 3.5 hour spans. Our average door calls are around 65 items per walk.

Your statement doesn't really surprise me - however, it would be impossible to find indoor work that takes up 6.5 hours outside of London I suspect but I wait for someone from another area to tell me that it is also being carried out anywhere other than Gods Triangle.

People in a normal office on a 30 hour contract would throw their delivery off, bag it and deliver a 3.5 hour delivery in 6 hours - that is a half hour less than you spend indoors.

Under this agreement you will be expected to perform in the top 10% of performance - I'd say you had a fair way to go wouldn't you? Some of the wording in the agreement is particularly interesting now in light of what you have said:


"Both parties are fully committed to all elements of this national agreement and neither will sanction any local negotiations which seek to change the principles or spirit of this agreement and/or make their deployment less effective and/or delay implementation."

God's triangle I suspect you are right though, all this indoor work suddenly available will have to come at someones
expense surely, unless you are carrying a large amount of vacancies that leaves V/R & buydowns, not everyone wants a buydown, in fact 2
persons have expressed an interest out of approx 60 at our place , we have a few V/R requests but the delivery element still needs to go somewhere
even if the indoor can be ABSORBED on the mystical 10 hr duty