PASSIONS AROUND THE 2010 PROPOSED DEAL

[luddite2]

most people just look at things, whats in it for ME ???? iF YOU THINK PEOPLE WILL LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE YOU ARE GOING TO BE VERY DISAPOINTED !!! if people think there going to one of the 25% in an office to get made up to full time they will vote yes If youve not had a sat off in years or are on a bad day off YOU might vote YES! IF YOUR STUCK ON A CRAP WALK AND YOU CAN SMELL A REPICK YOU MIGHT WELL VOTE YES you might like the smell of the lump sum waved under your nose exspecially if your planning or are going soon yuoull vote yes!!! i hate to p on your parades but i have worked for po for 20 years and seen people stab each other in the back for 1/2 hours docket

[chelmsfordpostie]

As households will now be in workload, you will now be able to book on them. So if i had say five or six households in a week to deliver the first thing i would be doing is claiming overtime on them which means the claim of delivering them for nothing becomes a bit of a red herring.

[LJR]

Keep hearing about housholds not being part of workload but they always have been. I claim when i go over and not when i dont and i take out 20% per day and it affects workload because it increases call rate. There is no way of seperating it you either go to a house or not and if you do it increases your call rate, workload and therefore overtime. If they are not happy then tell them you will cut of your housholds and they can find someone else to do it, or they can choose what part of the walk they wish to do from a cut off its all the same because they soon come into line. Households have always been the biggest rip off from RM they make the most profit for them but they would have you do it in your own time. Sorry i am not going to do that they cant have their cake and eat it.

[Big Daz]

As households will now be in workload, you will now be able to book on them. So if i had say five or six households in a week to deliver the first thing i would be doing is claiming overtime on them which means the claim of delivering them for nothing becomes a bit of a red herring.

Yes you will be able to book, as RML and CWU intend for duties to be planned to accomdate DTD. At the moment its very much a case of hear is your duty, do 20% a day of DTD with no consideration given to the the live mail workload.

As DTD increases, assuming it does then the only practical way is to plan workload to accomadate DTD, otherwise we wont have time to do DTD and complete duties. Imagine six lots of DTD and DTD not in workload and you are unable to work past your time, the DOM will be forever finding somebody to finish off the DTD or in the worse case scenario giving mbrs grief because they dont have time to complete all their DTD.

There appears to be a misunderstanding of what DTD into workload means in many posts on this site. It's about altering work rates/planning values as DTD will be classed as live mail and therefore the current and mostly unagreed planning values become in need of alteration, especially with the desire by RML/CWU to move beyond 3 items a week.

[dolphlundgren73]

I see a lot of your Posts and can understand your opinions. I was doubting the sense in proposing a yes vote to this agreement. I was at Liner hotel in liverpool for a meeting to Listen to people involved in negotiations and to actually hear the truth about why we are going to accept this offer. The truth is the alternative to not voting yes to this Proposal is very Bleak. We were going to lose our early shift allowance anyway! (7am start across the country)We would only get a few hundred pounds pay off for that and that would be it. Also royal mail are looking to include d2d as part of mail anyway and would vastly reduce your income on that. It would be walk sorted and bundled together.(Meaning if 5 leaflets were bundled together then you get paid for JUST one d2d. which is between 5 and 7 quid for most of us instead of 20 - 30 quid!). already you can see that a vote no would mean that you would get a one off payment for losing your allowances of about 200 quid(not a lot) and eventually 6quid aweek for 5 leaflets!. The 20 pound supplement might mean a pay increase to a lot of people who dont even deliver d2d now and it would be a pay cut to many more...including myself of about £6 a week.(id rather take a £6 loss now than just get paid £6 quid for all our leaflets).
The most important point was increasing the full time staff nationwide tho. Our Business is in a bad bad way. The union has agreed that leaflets must be included as "Normal Mail" from now on to make sure that the work is there to increase full time duties when revisions are done in offices. Keeping full time Jobs is vital!.
TNT already using their own posties in many towns to deliver leaflets. They are going to take their mail out of our bags soon and then you will see the devastation that will cause for us if we dont fight back now. Ive been a postie for 21 years and know that 99pcent of this trouble is all down to bad management in local and main offices . the damage is done and is almost beyond repair.
The Union have never said this is the best deal in the world. Some of you are thinking we were going to be like the postie in eastenders and shopping in waitrose for life. the union have warned us though that this is the best deal we could ever likely hope for. and does ensure we get some of our allowance and most of of d2d paid for...and more importantly KEEP OUR FULL TIME JOBS!.
Lets get on with getting our pension sorted!

[junior1]

yeah, everything seems to be about d2d this is only one point of this agreement a sticking point granted but what about 3 & 4 o'clock finish on saturday taking away our " more leisure time with our families " according to royal mail this is what the public want, well who's been out there and sourced this imformation because the folk on my round are up in arms that they wont get there post while later when they need to be off doing what they have to do. Also where does health & safety stand on this as opposed to 3 / 3.5 hr deliveries now we can do 5 / 6 hr deliveries i don't get it as there still wont be any toilets or shop on my round.

what firms and the public want is there early delivery back..

I agree the public want their mail early not late and this Saturday lark being a normal day just so they can get special d2d out all on 1 day is outrageous. As for the 5-6 hour delivery span, I asked my union rep about health and safety, he told me that RM are going to MAKE us do a delivery for 2 hours then MAKE us come back for our break then go and do another 2-3 hour delivery thus taking the health and safety aspect out of the equation!
I'm voting NO!

Sadly RM do not look at them as customers or owners (just sheep to be fleeced and that they are doing well!) As for the H&S stuff its off your shoulder so stop moaning and get on with it after all its "Your aspirations for a well paid and rewarding job" is it not? Some might say we as Post People dont live in the real world but i would say we do and its our bosses, Government RM and CWU that dont? Still we have our vote dont we.

I see a lot of your Posts and can understand your opinions. I was doubting the sense in proposing a yes vote to this agreement. I was at Liner hotel in liverpool for a meeting to Listen to people involved in negotiations and to actually hear the truth about why we are going to accept this offer. The truth is the alternative to not voting yes to this Proposal is very Bleak. We were going to lose our early shift allowance anyway! (7am start across the country)We would only get a few hundred pounds pay off for that and that would be it. Also royal mail are looking to include d2d as part of mail anyway and would vastly reduce your income on that. It would be walk sorted and bundled together.(Meaning if 5 leaflets were bundled together then you get paid for JUST one d2d. which is between 5 and 7 quid for most of us instead of 20 - 30 quid!). already you can see that a vote no would mean that you would get a one off payment for losing your allowances of about 200 quid(not a lot) and eventually 6quid aweek for 5 leaflets!. The 20 pound supplement might mean a pay increase to a lot of people who dont even deliver d2d now and it would be a pay cut to many more...including myself of about £6 a week.(id rather take a £6 loss now than just get paid £6 quid for all our leaflets).
The most important point was increasing the full time staff nationwide tho. Our Business is in a bad bad way. The union has agreed that leaflets must be included as "Normal Mail" from now on to make sure that the work is there to increase full time duties when revisions are done in offices. Keeping full time Jobs is vital!.
TNT already using their own posties in many towns to deliver leaflets. They are going to take their mail out of our bags soon and then you will see the devastation that will cause for us if we dont fight back now. Ive been a postie for 21 years and know that 99pcent of this trouble is all down to bad management in local and main offices . the damage is done and is almost beyond repair.
The Union have never said this is the best deal in the world. Some of you are thinking we were going to be like the postie in eastenders and shopping in waitrose for life. the union have warned us though that this is the best deal we could ever likely hope for. and does ensure we get some of our allowance and most of of d2d paid for...and more importantly KEEP OUR FULL TIME JOBS!.
Lets get on with getting our pension sorted!

[goldy]

Keep hearing about housholds not being part of workload but they always have been. I claim when i go over and not when i dont and i take out 20% per day and it affects workload because it increases call rate. There is no way of seperating it you either go to a house or not and if you do it increases your call rate, workload and therefore overtime. If they are not happy then tell them you will cut of your housholds and they can find someone else to do it, or they can choose what part of the walk they wish to do from a cut off its all the same because they soon come into line. Households have always been the biggest rip off from RM they make the most profit for them but they would have you do it in your own time. Sorry i am not going to do that they cant have their cake and eat it.

They are not specifically part of the days workload you can choose when you take them over three days but if your on all weekdays that gives you more scope to go if you have other live mail, i think this new deal is saying the leaflets will have to be delivered on the day you recieve them forcing you to go to homes with one piece maybe more a day( 100 per cent call rate) if the walks are made shorter thats ok but i cant see this being a priority for RM at the moment you may do your d2d in your own time but you dont have to go over your contracted hours bit of a grey area in our office the people who wold complain tend to have easier walks so nothing really gets sorted properly.I think what will happen if the deal were to go through is you would be expected to speed up to the"top 10 per cent" scary stuff ..

[heapsy]

the main debate is about the loss of our d2d payments. our manager has told us that Royal Mail are looking into putting all the leaflets into one envelope, this would mean you will only get one payment of 1.67p or what ever it weighs. so if this is the case we wont be that badly off as we dont get £8.60 for each item now. we asked what the time scale is and were told January 2011. the other thing to think about is that their are areas of the country that dont get any d2d items so they will vote yes as it is a pay rise to them

Mmmm the point you make on enveloping all D2D is interesting. Until recently RM insisted that this would NOT be happening. The reason for this was that they said customers didn't want this method used to deliver their leaflets. So are they bluffing, in order to make it sound like the job will be much easier? So what IS the truth on this? Is there anybody in the know who can give us the correct answer?

Many thanks in advance

[Big Daz]

The truth is RML have realised that it is the most cost effective way of taking on more DTD and would like to go down this route. Whether they will get a viable system up and running, only time will tell.

[Steviea34]

Mmmm the point you make on enveloping all D2D is interesting. Until recently RM insisted that this would NOT be happening. The reason for this was that they said customers didn't want this method used to deliver their leaflets. So are they bluffing, in order to make it sound like the job will be much easier? So what IS the truth on this? Is there anybody in the know who can give us the correct answer?

Many thanks in advance[/quote]

Hi, my understanding of the issue, is before sleeving there would need to be a number higher than 4 minimum. They are
either trialing or considering a trial of an open ended envelope with the D2D's in, as you post them they disperse out onto
the floor into singular items.

[heapsy]

Mmmm the point you make on enveloping all D2D is interesting. Until recently RM insisted that this would NOT be happening. The reason for this was that they said customers didn't want this method used to deliver their leaflets. So are they bluffing, in order to make it sound like the job will be much easier? So what IS the truth on this? Is there anybody in the know who can give us the correct answer?

Many thanks in advance

Hi, my understanding of the issue, is before sleeving there would need to be a number higher than 4 minimum. They are
either trialing or considering a trial of an open ended envelope with the D2D's in, as you post them they disperse out onto
the floor into singular items.[/quote]

Interesting but surely this would be similar to the system we have now where you collate the 2 or 3 contracts together then put them in the slots of the frame? Anyway, only time will tell.

[fishtank]

The truth is RML have realised that it is the most cost effective way of taking on more DTD and would like to go down this route. Whether they will get a viable system up and running, only time will tell.

Let's be honest here.
By "cost effective" they mean LESS hours into workload.LESS hours into your D.O. and ultimatly LESS jobs.
Let's not pray too hard for D2D in one envelope.

[NoSurrenderX]

I see a lot of your Posts and can understand your opinions. I was doubting the sense in proposing a yes vote to this agreement. I was at Liner hotel in liverpool for a meeting to Listen to people involved in negotiations and to actually hear the truth about why we are going to accept this offer. The truth is the alternative to not voting yes to this Proposal is very Bleak. We were going to lose our early shift allowance anyway! (7am start across the country)We would only get a few hundred pounds pay off for that and that would be it. Also royal mail are looking to include d2d as part of mail anyway and would vastly reduce your income on that. It would be walk sorted and bundled together.(Meaning if 5 leaflets were bundled together then you get paid for JUST one d2d. which is between 5 and 7 quid for most of us instead of 20 - 30 quid!). already you can see that a vote no would mean that you would get a one off payment for losing your allowances of about 200 quid(not a lot) and eventually 6quid aweek for 5 leaflets!. The 20 pound supplement might mean a pay increase to a lot of people who dont even deliver d2d now and it would be a pay cut to many more...including myself of about £6 a week.(id rather take a £6 loss now than just get paid £6 quid for all our leaflets).
The most important point was increasing the full time staff nationwide tho. Our Business is in a bad bad way. The union has agreed that leaflets must be included as "Normal Mail" from now on to make sure that the work is there to increase full time duties when revisions are done in offices. Keeping full time Jobs is vital!.
TNT already using their own posties in many towns to deliver leaflets. They are going to take their mail out of our bags soon and then you will see the devastation that will cause for us if we dont fight back now. Ive been a postie for 21 years and know that 99pcent of this trouble is all down to bad management in local and main offices . the damage is done and is almost beyond repair.
The Union have never said this is the best deal in the world. Some of you are thinking we were going to be like the postie in eastenders and shopping in waitrose for life. the union have warned us though that this is the best deal we could ever likely hope for. and does ensure we get some of our allowance and most of of d2d paid for...and more importantly KEEP OUR FULL TIME JOBS!.
Lets get on with getting our pension sorted!

[Bouncing Souls]

Mmmm the point you make on enveloping all D2D is interesting. Until recently RM insisted that this would NOT be happening. The reason for this was that they said customers didn't want this method used to deliver their leaflets. So are they bluffing, in order to make it sound like the job will be much easier? So what IS the truth on this? Is there anybody in the know who can give us the correct answer?

Many thanks in advance

Hi, my understanding of the issue, is before sleeving there would need to be a number higher than 4 minimum. They are
either trialing or considering a trial of an open ended envelope with the D2D's in, as you post them they disperse out onto
the floor into singular items.[/quote]


Recently i had a D2D item which was 5 A4 pages folded in half and then stapled, on these pages (double sided) was 20 different companies advertising whatever they offered, now these companies must have know that this was going to done this way and figured that people DO pick up the booklet and flick through it, the companies by the way were big players. it also wasn't area specific
It also had delivered by Royal mail on the front, so the sales folk must have said to the compaines this will be the format, and they've had no problem with it?
My only guess is that the companies involved got the ad space really cheap, or cheaper than a single D2D, or that customers are more likely to pick up the booklet and flick through?

[brookside]

I'VE READ WITH INTEREST EVERYONES OPINIONS ON 2010 AGREEMENT, SATURDAY HOURS,D2D, LOOPING, ETC, ETC, BUT HERES THE THING, DID OUR BRAVE UNION DISCUSS OUR NON PAYRISE FOR LAST YEAR WHILST OUR MANAGERS ALL RECIEVED A NICE BONUS OFF THE BACKS OF HARD WORKING SLAVE DRIVEN POSTIES??????? AND AS FOR MAKING MORE MORE STAFF UPTO FULL TIME DON'T WE HAVE TO REDUCE THE NUMBER FIRST, THROUGH E.V.R. BY THE WAY OF SENIORITY FIRST , THIS IN MY VIEW MEANS THEY HOPE TO GET RID OF THE ELDER GENERATION WHO THEY FEEL PROBABLY WONT BE ABLE TO STEP UP TO THE MARK WHEN THE CHANGES ARE INTRODUCED. OH BY THE WAY A BEAUTIFUL WARM SUNNY DAY TODAY 3HR 45MIN DELIVERY, BANGING FOR ENGLAND AT END, THEN THOUGHT BLOODY HELL I COULD SOON BE DOING AN EXTRA 2HRS. SCARY IS'NT IT.