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workshops and menu options

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
realmichael
Posts: 151
Joined: 21 Feb 2010, 13:11
Gender: Male
Location: between a rock and a hard place

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by realmichael »

the ballot should start once the workshops are completed ! not before. :crazy:

and if it is true that not every member will be sent a copy of the agreement, that is nothing short of a disgrace :mad
"Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains."
"Without doubt, machinery has greatly increased the number of well-to-do idlers."
"An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory"
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 16650
Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
Gender: Male

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by dvbuk55 »

realmichael wrote:the ballot should start once the workshops are completed ! not before. :crazy:

and if it is true that not every member will be sent a copy of the agreement, that is nothing short of a disgrace :mad
If you have any concerns dingo will put you right - you don't need to read the bad bits - just vote YES :crazy:

Now that the ballot is in full flow guess who has popped out of the woodwork again.

I say lets wait until he gets bored with this topic and starts another.
belle smith
Posts: 1557
Joined: 26 Aug 2008, 17:41
Gender: Male
Location: scotland

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by belle smith »

dingo wrote:The workshop on geo route is also important as the 2008 model has reduced the walking speed and increased the time for attendance calls ( ie packets , reg etc ) however when this has been overlayed on previous geo route revisions its shows that other planning values have been increased which will need to be anaylised. In additon the call rate calculator needs to be reviewed.
Dingo any chance you could expand on this?

Maybe i'm reading it wrong (or sceptically) but that sounds an awfull lot like the the time given at each drop (7 secounds) has been reduced, cancelling out any gain from the drop in walkspeed. :confused

Do you know the new walkspeed, if so are you able to say??
Last edited by belle smith on 06 Apr 2010, 16:55, edited 1 time in total.
pickaname
Posts: 1467
Joined: 11 Sep 2007, 20:24

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by pickaname »

All this talk about 'confusing' planning values isnt going to stop people tearing around and going home early.

If you make the walks managable, fliers will carve them up. If you make them bigger so the fliers dont finish early, the rest will cut off.

Such is the nature of the job...some people are simply quicker than others.
belle smith
Posts: 1557
Joined: 26 Aug 2008, 17:41
Gender: Male
Location: scotland

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by belle smith »

pickaname wrote:All this talk about 'confusing' planning values isnt going to stop people tearing around and going home early.

If you make the walks managable, fliers will carve them up. If you make them bigger so the fliers dont finish early, the rest will cut off.

Such is the nature of the job...some people are simply quicker than others.
if they are 2 in a van and going back to the office the managers shouldn't let them leave early.
Martin Walsh
Posts: 4276
Joined: 19 Sep 2007, 20:12
Location: neverland

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by Martin Walsh »

realmichael wrote:the ballot should start once the workshops are completed ! not before. :crazy:

and if it is true that not every member will be sent a copy of the agreement, that is nothing short of a disgrace :mad
I know Branch`s who have copied the agreement and given to members in their Branch`s and are simply left in the canteen. If a member wants a copy then thy should contact their Branch who should be able to get them a copy. There will be comms sent by the union including an executive summary of the agreement.

Now in terms of the agreement the agreement was never going to mean that you got a vote on the planning values of the various tools as you can forget about 90 pages long you would be looking at planning values of a thousand pages. The agreement is quite clear that these planning values will be worked up jointly , modelled and areas of concern will be tested in a live enviorment.

Regarding geo route the actual system is not a problem as it is widely used in Europe and Canada. However if the planning values have been designed un realistically then you have a problem. For instance Geo route 2008 has reduced walking speeds increased attendance rates ( different from call rate ) which should have meant more time given to an offiice but a few offices who have used this system has found that managment have reduced times for walking down paths or delivering to high rise blocks etc in order to comphensate for the reduction of walking speeds.

The union will be able to ensure that all of these planning values are tested and if neccesary test in an office.

The union has never had this opportunity to agree realistic standards. Remember BSI is a recognised standard of working throughout industry and ACAS have wrote the guidelines and remember someone can only work at 100 BSI if they have the right equipment , a full head of work and are fully motivated. Being bullied into working 100BS1 is not a motivation and with acas overseeing this process would not be acceptable.

The other method which needs to be trialled is that some offices recive far more redirections in an office then others and far more dead letters and others and equally some walks have a single slot per address and some have two or three addressess per slot which all require different planning values.

So if the union sent out every single planning value for every possible situration do you really think most would understand what applies to them.

The process is for the union to agree that the planning values are either fair or need to be tested to prove their not fair.

I really do think some of you believe that planning values should all be the same , well clearly if you said that everyone had to sort at 800 items per hour then you would have to understand whether the mix of mail for each office was the same as flats and packets have a lower planning value then letters and of course some do have a secondary sorting ( a further sortation ) or if an office has alpha.

Equally you cannot have one prep rate as the prep includes clearing in and if your a small office you only have maybe 10 or 20 frames to clear in from whereas if your in a big office you might have an hundred frames to clear in from.

So they will be diferent planning values for different siturations , but once they are fair they can be applied to suit an office.
Danelectro
Posts: 1058
Joined: 13 Apr 2008, 01:02

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by Danelectro »

dingo wrote:
So if the union sent out every single planning value for every possible situration do you really think most would understand what applies to them.
Yes,with good clear graphics and a well written guide and the rep given support to answer any queries,then i cant see why anybody could not understand how the workload for their own office is calculated.
drb
Posts: 1044
Joined: 30 Jan 2007, 21:44
Gender: Male

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by drb »

I remember when we(shamefully) voted to be a delivery best practice office.We thought it would slow the buggers down! How wrong we were! Pre-interim they would finish their walks AND absorb 6 walks!! Stupid b******s.

Anyway...I digress....

The business sold as this geo-route package as..."Make all walks equal"

There is no such thing! 1 walk was tested 3 times and still ran over!!

WE NEED to be part of the planning

WE NEED to sort the parameters out

WE NEED for BSi to include stress and fatigue NOT based on a business plan

WE NEED ACAS involved in the workshop process
realmichael
Posts: 151
Joined: 21 Feb 2010, 13:11
Gender: Male
Location: between a rock and a hard place

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by realmichael »

i reiterate my point that this should have all been squared away before the vote, why rush now?

and as for saying most would not understand what applies to them. well well well!!!!!!!!

will we mere reps be able to understand?

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
Albert Einstein
"Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains."
"Without doubt, machinery has greatly increased the number of well-to-do idlers."
"An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory"
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by fishtank »

realmichael wrote:
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
Albert Einstein

And if they don't understand it,we are all screwed.
Fishtank
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
drb
Posts: 1044
Joined: 30 Jan 2007, 21:44
Gender: Male

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by drb »

And if they don't understand it,we are all screwed.
Yep!!!
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 16650
Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
Gender: Male

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by dvbuk55 »

The new understanding will be those famous six words

"Hang on we didn't mean that" :left:
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by fishtank »

dvbuk55 wrote:The new understanding will be those famous six words

"Hang on we didn't mean that" :left:
And you will reach for the agreement and say "It states quite clearly.........awww bugger"
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
drb
Posts: 1044
Joined: 30 Jan 2007, 21:44
Gender: Male

Re: workshops and menu options

Post by drb »

And you will reach for the agreement and say "It states quite clearly.........awww bugger"

:funneh