Is this a deal to protect FT jobs in London.

[POSTMAN]

As in 07 you can have what ever duty pattern you want,this is not a London thing,if my office has part timers covering Sat,which they dont btw then those outside can have it as well.

We don't have special duty patterns just because we are in London!

Without being rude or disrespecting to your branches,they do need to buck their ideas up.

Also i'm aware of a couple of offices in KENT that have SA on a Sat,are they next in the firing line?

[beaker boy]

It's the whole of the Dartford & Bromley area that has SA sats.

[Glenno]

Also i'm aware of a couple of offices in KENT that have SA on a Sat,are they next in the firing line?

[POSTMAN]

It's the whole of the Dartford & Bromley area that has SA sats.

Bingo,there you go.I knew bexleyheath/Bexley and one i couldn't rem,cheers beaker.

[Edward Hunter]

No London is not covered by sa on Saturdays. Yes London has mostly full timers because in the main we have opposed royal mails plans to turn the job into a part time industry. It is a shame some other areas didt take a stand as some have almost 50 per cent part timers. London will see an increase in part timers but the retention of delivery in london is not good. Under this deal I know some reps who will be looking at having Saturday on part timers or a four day week with Friday and Saturdays being covered by a part timer on 20 hours.

Monday to Thursday? - just sold me the deal!

[belle smith]

No London is not covered by sa on Saturdays. Yes London has mostly full timers because in the main we have opposed royal mails plans to turn the job into a part time industry. It is a shame some other areas didt take a stand as some have almost 50 per cent part timers. London will see an increase in part timers but the retention of delivery in london is not good. Under this deal I know some reps who will be looking at having Saturday on part timers or a four day week with Friday and Saturdays being covered by a part timer on 20 hours.

Monday to Thursday? - just sold me the deal!

I have a feeling the part timers in your office might not be so keen!
btw i'm full time.

[spilie]

loads of pt in my office and area, but thanks for telling me who is to blame for the big shift to pt, my area and local union reps according to you dingo, well i will copy your post and show it to all in my office and ask my local and area rep to explain why they never STOOD FIRM, but wait you know they never stood firm then so why would you leave vital negotiations up to them again mmmmmmmm????????????

[dvbuk55]

loads of pt in my office and area, but thanks for telling me who is to blame for the big shift to pt, my area and local union reps according to you dingo, well i will copy your post and show it to all in my office and ask my local and area rep to explain why they never STOOD FIRM, but wait you know they never stood firm then so why would you leave vital negotiations up to them again mmmmmmmm????????????

Well lets look at the evidence - the 2007 Pay and Modernisation Agreement instituted a 50/50 share in savings, any savings made would be shared between the office and RM - now the only place savings can be made would be FT to PT - and so it was BUT even before that in 2006 there was the buy down scheme whereby you gave up full time hours to go part time for an amount of money and many took that option BOTH THESE SCHEMES WERE SANCTIONED BY THE CWU now we have dingo saying what weak offices we were and how strong they were - we merely followed the leadership of the CWU - EXACTLY WHAT DINGO AND LOVEJOY WOULD HAVE US DO THIS TIME - so where exactly do we stand?

Was the CWU wrong in its decision to sanction 50/50 share and buy down and if they were - what makes anyone think they are right this time?

[Martin Walsh]

Some of you need to start thinking outside the box, when I said that some reps in London are now thinking about Saturday only part timers or a 4 day week with Fridays and saturdays covered by a Part timer then it is on the basis that at the moment most offices do not have part timers and this is going to increase in places like London where over 95% of staff on deliveries are full timers.

Equally there are part timers who currently work 5 days per week for 20 hours and maybe some of them may even be attracted to working just two days for the same hours and same pay.

The first thing in the revison process is to survey the staff in your office on attendances and duty patterns and that is on page 31 of the agreement.

Look to get new attendance patterns you have to look at things in a different way thats why some of us had 5 day working in the late 80s while most staff were on a 6 day week, equally thats why there were 28 offices on 4 day week duties under pay and mod. We didt wait we ensured we made the move, 4 day weeks were not an easy sell to some of the members intially but they soon learnt to love them and when management attempted to remove them they took strike action to defend them.

In my opinion there are a lot of ideas out there and you need to ensure that your office taps into them. The menu of options gives various ideas including the 9 day fortnight , the 4 day week , the wallington plus and a system which gives 1 in 2 saturdays off.

[belle smith]

Some of you need to start thinking outside the box, when I said that some reps in London are now thinking about Saturday only part timers or a 4 day week with Fridays and saturdays covered by a Part timer then it is on the basis that at the moment most offices do not have part timers and this is going to increase in places like London where over 95% of staff on deliveries are full timers.

Equally there are part timers who currently work 5 days per week for 20 hours and maybe some of them may even be attracted to working just two days for the same hours and same pay.

Fair enough. I know in my office that this would be enourmously popular with the F/T staff. The P/T staff would hate it. We are mostly full timers in our office (including me) and could push it through in a vote. I wouldn't want to though and thats not because i enjoy working Saturday.

Anyway how would that effect the 1 in 4 Saturdays off if existing P/T staff were told you will be working every Saturday. Would that not be breaking the agreement??

[POSTMAN]

I've previously posted before that i will look at the agreement as a whole before i decide what way i would vote.

If it's not good for EVERYONE then i will vote no.

To now get involved with revisions that will alienate colleagues of mine that are part timers is not on my agenda.

Am i man enough to push for a revision that f***s these people so us fulltimers can have the weekend off?

My conscience tell me no,the problem with me is i have too much of a conscience.

Wish i wern't such a wimp!

[belle smith]

Wish i wern't such a wimp!

Me too.

[Martin Walsh]

The survey would determine what was introduced. No one including part timers will be forced to alter their hours as that is contained on page 10 of the agreement which states PART TIME EMPLOYEES WILL BE ENTITLED TO RETAIN THEIR EXISTING CONTRACTUAL HOURS IF THEY WISH.

The point I was making was that in places with a large percentage of full timers that it is possible to introduce part timers in a different way then delivery only. Imagine if a part timer on 20 hours could save hours on child care etc by working just a Friday and Saturday now that would be attractive to some people.

It is not about forcing people to do things they dont want its about surveying the existing staff and then trying to address their wishes which may be to increase the number of staff who do not want to work saturdays at all.

[dvbuk55]

The survey would determine what was introduced. No one including part timers will be forced to alter their hours as that is contained on page 10 of the agreement which states PART TIME EMPLOYEES WILL BE ENTITLED TO RETAIN THEIR EXISTING CONTRACTUAL HOURS IF THEY WISH.

The point I was making was that in places with a large percentage of full timers that it is possible to introduce part timers in a different way then delivery only. Imagine if a part timer on 20 hours could save hours on child care etc by working just a Friday and Saturday now that would be attractive to some people.

It is not about forcing people to do things they dont want its about surveying the existing staff and then trying to address their wishes which may be to increase the number of staff who do not want to work saturdays at all.

Well "Part time employees will be entitled to retain their existing contractual hours if they wish" - is not the same as saying they will retain their shift pattern is it?
There somehow seems to be a bias against part time members of staff in this agreement, our office has something in the order of 40% part timers, all delivery officers all who stand to lose money on the implementation of this agreement - now who thinks they are going to embrace accepting changes detrimental to their shift pattern as well?

[lovejoy]

The survey would determine what was introduced. No one including part timers will be forced to alter their hours as that is contained on page 10 of the agreement which states PART TIME EMPLOYEES WILL BE ENTITLED TO RETAIN THEIR EXISTING CONTRACTUAL HOURS IF THEY WISH.

The point I was making was that in places with a large percentage of full timers that it is possible to introduce part timers in a different way then delivery only. Imagine if a part timer on 20 hours could save hours on child care etc by working just a Friday and Saturday now that would be attractive to some people.

It is not about forcing people to do things they dont want its about surveying the existing staff and then trying to address their wishes which may be to increase the number of staff who do not want to work saturdays at all.

Well "Part time employees will be entitled to retain their existing contractual hours if they wish" - is not the same as saying they will retain their shift pattern is it?
There somehow seems to be a bias against part time members of staff in this agreement, our office has something in the order of 40% part timers, all delivery officers all who stand to lose money on the implementation of this agreement - now who thinks they are going to embrace accepting changes detrimental to their shift pattern as well?

Detrimental in your opinion Dvbuk. I have spoken to many PT members who would like to do their hours in 2days instead of 5. Gives them the chance of 5 clear days off and also the chance to do more OT if they want it. Like Dingo says the survey of the office willd determine the course the duties take...... It is just one option of many.