Lovejoy's ACAS promise

[Martin Walsh]

Ok as someone who has been heavily involved with ACAS for the last 4 months and know both Peter Harwood and his number 2 John Woods, they do not draft the agreements. The drafting of the agreements are done by both Royal Mail and the CWU normally into seperate rooms. The way ACAS asks both parties to act is where ever possible to adopt the other sides wording and if they need to change things then only change what they dont like.

ACAS normally then go between both parties to try and get each section of the agreement agreed.

The truth is that in doing so often the paragraphs in the agreement is worded in a compromise manner and some even dont really make sense. But you have to remember that Royal Mail have to report upwards and have pressure from their Board and people who are not in negotiations. Whereas the CWU have to report to the PEC, Divisional reps , Branch`s and members.

Now in regards to what powers ACAS have , well they dont have legal powers but they resolve 85% of all disputes they are involved in so bearing in mind normally when they get involved its normally when people are ready to go out on strike then that is a good success rate.

In addition we also have Roger Poole who has a direct link into the govenment and was meeting Pat Mcfadden on a regular basis to ensure that they were up to date with the talks.

Look we can all doubt the trust issue as we have all seen Royal Mail`s normal industrial relations attitude. However as someone who meets regional directors and did so last week on the new agreement , they are saying the right things and they have said that they will ensure that the DOMs and DSMs carry out the full terms of the agreement as they cannot introduce the agreement successfully without our involvement and without ensuring the members are on board.

Early days but certainly a different attitude from last year.

[axeman]

And dingo thats rubbish you know as well as i thats simply not going to happen !! i have it on good authority that as soon as and if it's rattified by the members then they will just press ahead with the plans they had prior to last years action ...back on track ?

[oggie]

[quote="axeman"]i have it on good authority

[Stormproof]

Ok as someone who has been heavily involved with ACAS for the last 4 months

You should be bloody ashamed of yourself for being part of this sham deal.

[Martin Walsh]

Ok as someone who has been heavily involved with ACAS for the last 4 months

You should be bloody ashamed of yourself for being part of this sham deal.

Stormproof I had nothing to do with the national deal. ACAS was involved in assisting London resolve the interim agreement .

Axeman we have all heard someone tell us something etc. Well tell me this why have Royal Mail spent 4 months in talks and not introduced any changes if they now want to introduce all the changes without agreement. it does not make sense.

In fact last wednesday our side met Higson and Handon who said the complete opposite and is intending to put out some comms to the managers who are trying to spin the agreement. In his words the agreement is the Agreement and everyone who was involved knows what was agreed and it will be implemented including the work standards , the 1 in 4 saturdays etc.

[fishtank]

dingo
Axeman we have all heard someone tell us something etc. Well tell me this why have Royal Mail spent 4 months in talks and not introduced any changes if they now want to introduce all the changes without agreement. it does not make sense.

dingo
Whats the alternative ? Go out and then consult again with members to see why they reject the agreement and then start negotiating again, in the mean time Royal Mail will simply push on with change and attack where they think they wont get any resistance normally the places with the most part timers

What are you telling us dingo.
If we vote Yes all will be well and Royal Mail will be our best friend.
But if we vote NO Royal Mail will revert to type.
Well if they are that duplicitous i personally would rather not TRUST them and without trust this agreement is far to weak to consider.

[dvbuk55]

Ok as someone who has been heavily involved with ACAS for the last 4 months

You should be bloody ashamed of yourself for being part of this sham deal.

Stormproof I had nothing to do with the national deal. ACAS was involved in assisting London resolve the interim agreement .

Axeman we have all heard someone tell us something etc. Well tell me this why have Royal Mail spent 4 months in talks and not introduced any changes if they now want to introduce all the changes without agreement. it does not make sense.

In fact last wednesday our side met Higson and Handon who said the complete opposite and is intending to put out some comms to the managers who are trying to spin the agreement. In his words the agreement is the Agreement and everyone who was involved knows what was agreed and it will be implemented including the work standards , the 1 in 4 saturdays etc.

I've been saying the same thing for a long time Dingo - the words are the words, not implied but as the agreement states.

Now lets sort out what ACAS role is - "in the initial stages" - 6 months down the line, 9 months, 12 months - forever.

In the managers brief it states quite clearly "and we will move forward ot OUR pace" does that sound like it is a two sided agreement.

The union are hearing what they want to hear and the members are seeing what the reality is.

I'm sorry but that is the truth. If this goes through there is trouble ahead and not too far into the future.

[axeman]

the agreement will give royal fail all they need to press ahead as they please destroying our t & C's and reducing our pay this union has got a lot to answer for
seems we have been sidelined for the guys at hq to protect there nice little earners

oggie mate you know not who i am

[janitor]

Ok so ACAS are going to see the deal is adhered to, the problem is this deal is so wooly that RM could drive an entire wild west show through it side ways, they have no reason not to adhere to it. Their interpretation of this deal will be different to the CWUs, and as always there version will be the one that gets enacted.

[oggie]

[quote="axeman"]

you know not who i am

[Tman]

Stop it Oggie.
He's happy in his world.

[Steviea34]

Lovejoy said:

"On the plus side the process will be overseen by ACAS to ensure that both sides abide by any agreement that is reached."

However, I emailed Peter Harwood, ACAS's Chief Negotiator, on 27.03.10 with a query about the proposed agreement. He sent me this reply on 28.03.10:

"The wording of the agreement is the responsibility of the parties not Acas. I will forward your email to the company to respond.

Regards,

Peter Harwood
Chief Conciliator."

If ACAS won't be drawn on the wording of the agreement, it is highly unlikely they would get involved in a dispute about the interpretation of this wording.

Were off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of OZ, because, because of the wonderful things he does ;