Who really is losing in this agreement.

[tpost]

If the union had consulted throughout the negotiations instead of keeping everything secret we would not be in this mess. This used to be a union of open debate now it seems branches and area Reps are frightened to go against the party line. I have been until recently a rep until for nearly 8 years and one thing I can say is local negotiations leave offices to fight their own battles. No maximum delivery span is not looking after peoples health and the D2D supplement is a joke.If this deal goes ahead it will make the last 2 years seem like a walk in the park. I am not against change but this is change on RM terms.

[mucker]

one thing I can say is local negotiations leave offices to fight their own battles.

within our branch,this was metioned on numerous occasions back in 2007,many offices have suffered ever since

[pickaname]

So is Dingo saying that if its a NO vote the CWU are refusing to reopen talks?

Is he trying to scare us by saying that if we vote not current d2d payemtns could cease? Great! At least they would remain voluntary.

Time to ditch the CWU me thinks - either get out of ask for alternative representation. More worried about themseves than the membership. Had to be brought kicking and screaming to a strike ballot and are now trying to palm us off with 20 pieces of silver.

Saying theres no plan B is simply not good enough.

Shame on you CWU.

[Martin Walsh]

This 39 hours week that's 'worth' 2.5% why not keep us at 40hrs and just give us the 2.5%? Then it would be worth real money!

Because the policy of the union is to get a shorter working week so you only have to fill 39 hours of work rather than 40 hours in a 40 person office that allows for an extra full time job to be created or saved.

[Stormproof]

This 39 hours week that's 'worth' 2.5% why not keep us at 40hrs and just give us the 2.5%? Then it would be worth real money!

Because the policy of the union is to get a shorter working week so you only have to fill 39 hours of work rather than 40 hours in a 40 person office that allows for an extra full time job to be created or saved.

Its going to make no difference at all Dingo, we will have to absorb that extra hour........40hours work into 39hours.

[Martin Walsh]

So is Dingo saying that if its a NO vote the CWU are refusing to reopen talks?

Is he trying to scare us by saying that if we vote not current d2d payemtns could cease? Great! At least they would remain voluntary.

Time to ditch the CWU me thinks - either get out of ask for alternative representation. More worried about themseves than the membership. Had to be brought kicking and screaming to a strike ballot and are now trying to palm us off with 20 pieces of silver.

Saying theres no plan B is simply not good enough.

Shame on you CWU.

No i never said that, if there is a no vote ( i dont think there will be ) but you never know. Then the CWU will have to consult and find out the reasons and then explore with Royal Mail if they are willing to re open the talks and amend what was on offer. Now it will take a few weeks to to consult and obviously meet with Royal Mail , the question is will Royal Mail wait to introduce change or just push on without agreement.

Prior to the talks Royal Mail threaten to turn off the Door to Door product in any of the red areas including parts of London, Manchester , Brunley and Liverpool. as Royal Mail have to pay compensation to the company for failing to delivery to spec and for the printing and cost of the product. Anyone who thinks Door to Door is going to continue like it has since 1995 is simply not looking at this issue correctly. Yes it may for a short period but you will pay a price in full time jobs and eventually in income as a result of Royal Mail deciding to lift the cap regardless of a national agreement in areas where they believe they can attract more revenue.

I am off out and you can slag me off to your hearts content but it dont make me wrong.

[number one]

This 39 hours week that's 'worth' 2.5% why not keep us at 40hrs and just give us the 2.5%? Then it would be worth real money!

Because the policy of the union is to get a shorter working week so you only have to fill 39 hours of work rather than 40 hours in a 40 person office that allows for an extra full time job to be created or saved.

well let me just stop you there! Royal mail will NOT employ anymore full time staff!!

[BELIAL]

This 39 hours week that's 'worth' 2.5% why not keep us at 40hrs and just give us the 2.5%? Then it would be worth real money!

Because the policy of the union is to get a shorter working week so you only have to fill 39 hours of work rather than 40 hours in a 40 person office that allows for an extra full time job to be created or saved.

A good thing surely most would agree. However there are several problems with this statement in reality.
For this to become reality you would need to factor in agreed performance standards ,agreed measures and limits to workload, and accurate and verifiable measures of traffic, none of which ,it seems will be available before we are required to make a decision.
So the office that succeeds in securing a new full time position may well be required to cut four full time positions under a budget savings plan based on figures which will be determined by values that are as yet unknown.( ps it seems our 5% budget savings plan for the coming year is still going ahead regardless of this proposed deal, you see the problem?)

[dvbuk55]

This 39 hours week that's 'worth' 2.5% why not keep us at 40hrs and just give us the 2.5%? Then it would be worth real money!

Because the policy of the union is to get a shorter working week so you only have to fill 39 hours of work rather than 40 hours in a 40 person office that allows for an extra full time job to be created or saved.

WRONG! Somehow this 39 hour week has been trotted out as an immediate bonus BUT it only comes into effect when the SEQUENCED revision takes place - which may be this year for a few, most next year and some in 2012 - now how many times have we heard the same dingo say that this will create job losses yet at the same time say that the 39 hour week will mean extra jobs when that hour only comes into effect on the sequenced revision AND WAS DESIGNED IN THAT WAY TO AVOID EXTRA JOBS.

No one should be misled into thinking that what these people say is the truth - just analyse what they say and what the agreement says and you will see the truth isn't somewhere in between but a long way from what is being portrayed.

[POSTMAN]

Then the CWU will have to consult and find out the reasons and then explore with Royal Mail if they are willing to re open the talks and amend what was on offer. Now it will take a few weeks to to consult and obviously meet with Royal Mail , the question is will Royal Mail wait to introduce change or just push on without agreement.

To be fair dingo,that shows RM's arrogance,they have been arrogant thorugh out the whole talks.

They have not 'taken the workforce' with them through modernisation,it's a case of it's 'our' business plan like it or lump it.

Now fair enough it's their business as sorts and they are entitle to do what plan they seem fit,but the fact that is they have 'ignored' the donkeys on the front line.

I'm am still not a yes or a no voter at the moment,i have never been so undecided on anything in my life.

But the more i think of their plan the more i see it's a case of,it's my ball we play what game i like and f**k you if you don't wanna play.

This is what is pushing me towards a no vote more than anything in the deal.

Oh and ftr,i think it's going to be a very slim yes vote.

[belle smith]

In addition you will get the thousand pounds for introducing two revisions including the walk sequencing revision. You will also get two years of the colleague share money. Again spare me the spin that this is our money as it was always dependent of the financial state of the company. If this plan does not go ahead then the future of Royal Mail will be in question not in a way of bankrupcy etc but it cannot survive without government assistance if this plan does not go ahead.

Dingo, Even with the 'plan' RM cannot survive without the financial assistance of the goverment, the pension deficit is so large that the company can't service it!! This is not the fault of the CWU or RM employees. It is the fault predomitly of senior RM management (and the Trustees) who embarked upon an ever riskier investment strategy to facilitate a pension holiday for the company. Why should we carry the liability for that?

On the colleague share money, well it was always dependant on RM riping up our exisiting pension scheme and our terms and conditions, without us striking. It certainly wasn't about the generosity of RM. But it was somthing that was seperate from the strike, that it's been plasterd all over the media as being linked to this deal doesn't help us. We will look like a bunch of malcontents if we vote no. Espacially since everyone is being told we are all getting a payrise, when in fact many will see a reduction in their take home pay. This deal at least as far as the public is concerned is being misrepresented and not just by RM. If their is no plan B, well thats partly because HQ have painted themselfs into a corner by saying how great it is. ( i realise thats not your fault )

[PostieWithTheMostie!]

However if you accept the deal lets have look at what you recieve inclusive of the supplement your pay will go up from £347.61 to £393.73 in the third year. Thats an increase of £46.21 for national rate,. Spare me the spin about the third year as it was the union who asked for the review just in case inflation had gone up and the pension blackhole had been sorted.

THE THIRD YEAR Union asked in case of iNFLATION... Then why in a WTL 2 weeks ago did our DOM tell us the 3.4% was an incentive if we hit our TARGETS..

Another case of more Bullsh!t at a - Locally run NATIONALISED Company..

Thats 1 major aspect thats killing this Company - It should be run NATIONALLY across the board no matter if you live in Lands Ends or John o'Groats..

[fishtank]

However if you accept the deal lets have look at what you recieve inclusive of the supplement your pay will go up from £347.61 to £393.73 in the third year. Thats an increase of £46.21 for national rate,. Spare me the spin about the third year as it was the union who asked for the review just in case inflation had gone up and the pension blackhole had been sorted.

THE THIRD YEAR Union asked in case of iNFLATION... Then why in a WTL 2 weeks ago did our DOM tell us the 3.4% was an incentive if we hit our TARGETS..

Another case of more Bullsh!t at a - Locally run NATIONALISED Company..

Thats 1 major aspect thats killing this Company - It should be run NATIONALLY across the board no matter if you live in Lands Ends or John o'Groats..

Well the management briefing clearly states

3.5% in April 2012 (linked to plan on track and reopener clause if inflation outside forecast range)

[PostieWithTheMostie!]

Well the management briefing clearly states

3.5% in April 2012 (linked to plan on track and reopener clause if inflation outside forecast range)

So - Plan on Track is the TARGETS - Yes?

So what happens if Inflation is INSIDE the FORECAST RANGE..?

So if the plan on track fails and the inflation is inside the forecast range are we to get the 3.4% payrise or will they hold it back due to us failing to hit targets..

Whats the point anyway! 3 years down the line we'll all be work for TNT, Deutsche Post or some European Postal Company, who won't need to give us Jack~Sh!t...

[dvbuk55]

Well the management briefing clearly states

3.5% in April 2012 (linked to plan on track and reopener clause if inflation outside forecast range)

So - Plan on Track is the TARGETS - Yes?

So what happens if Inflation is INSIDE the FORECAST RANGE..?

So if the plan on track fails and the inflation is inside the forecast range are we to get the 3.4% payrise or will they hold it back due to us failing to hit targets..

Whats the point anyway! 3 years down the line we'll all be work for TNT, Deutsche Post or some European Postal Company, who won't need to give us Jack~Sh!t...

One of the reasons why I do not like the 3 year span of the agreement - it is too far in the future with too many uncertainties - this long distance deal does nothing to enhance the power of the union and disenfranchises the membership from negotiations for that length of time whilst giving RM three years to shape the future as THEY see fit with the union on its coat tails.