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Myths about the agreement

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
Big Daz
Posts: 5668
Joined: 17 Apr 2007, 20:27
Gender: Male

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by Big Daz »

daveyeff wrote:totally agree, anyone who works in a d.o. actually doing a walk, WILL be worse off, there is no ifs or buts about it.
Sorry your wrong, the upset is just as much that winners are only some of the delivery workforce and not all of them,

I was not aware that is was loosers only on the DTD/supplement issue :hmmmm

The only genric staement that can apply is that we have winners and loosers.

Im a delivery member Im 30 hours a week and I do not loose out on the money front, my ESA is less than the basic pay increase and my ESA is pro rata. My 80% of dtd calls/6 weeks leave is not enough to make me a looser.

However a FT from a former 0401 to 0500 start with say 700 calls and only 4 weeks leave will find themselves worse off even taken into account the increase to basic pay and the supplement being 52 weeks a year.

80% of 700 calls and FT ESA 1 would be around £40 most weeks some being higher on the weeks when we get 1.75 pence or some being lower if a week with 2 or less DTD happens. That is replaced by £27.54 X 52 weeks £1432.08 which is a £500 aprox drop over the 52 weeks. Now if the duty holder did not get ESA he would get £28 aprox over 45 weeks which is £1260.
Martin Walsh
Posts: 4276
Joined: 19 Sep 2007, 20:12
Location: neverland

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by Martin Walsh »

It is a funny old world where people call people names over the internet. How pathetic is that, clearly people who either have no argument , not read the agreement, or do not believe that someone else can have a different opinion.

For the record I am not from Heaquaters and dont conform to party line. However as some one who has always stood up for members rights and been involved in countless strikes including helping lead one of the longest last year in our union history which helped get the union back in the room then I am entitled to my opinion as I have earned it.

Guvenor , Proper position, Mr Deeds your really not worth answering as you simply have no agrument and just get personal. PM me if you want further discussion.

K979a althrough you call me a twat very classy , I will answer you in that of course the union had a policy 5 years ago in that they wanted the average wage and a 35 hour working week ( we have had policy since 1988 ). In 2003 the national wage stood at £243.16 after this deal it will stand at £393.73 which is an increase of £150.16 in 9 years , inner London weighting would have been increased by £194 and outer by £198. So the unions strategy of improving basic pay instead of over reliance on both overtime and allowances has worked. In terms of the shorter working week the hour off will mean that we are now working only 35 hours as meal reliefs are on top. We are at the very top of manual workers apart from the RMT and can you show me any other organisation in the trade union movement who has secured a shorter working week and a basic pay increase. You will not find one. In fact over 50% of claims resulted in no pay rises. Look at the BA dispute the union is offering to cut allowances in return for saving jobs, in PCS they are fighting to secure a redundancy package which is inferior to the one we have. You might choose to ingore that but its true.

Welshy if you recieve 2 items per week door to door and recieve the ESA then if you do not recieve them on average 10 weeks then you will start losing over 300 delivery points. If you have the maximum ESA £12 and you have 800 delivery points double the average you will lose £728 per year. However you have to also take into account over that period basic pay including the allowances will go up and by year 3 the package will be worth £2398.24 per year. But more importantly instead of being in a part time job with less pay you will have mostly full timers who attract higher pay. Part of this will be door to door. Equally remember the early shift allowance was by default for coming in at 0500 , when you have walk sequencing you will not have many 0500 starts.

Now bitchface very charming name. Your obviously for London and yes we have had problems with the interim agreement. It was hardly surprising given the fact we were involved in 20 days of strike action and everyone from Higson , Tolhurst , jenson down didnt miss a media opportunity to slag London postal workers off and not surprisingly some on this site joined in.

However we have at long last with the help of ACAS resolved all but 15 of the 98 imposed executive action revisions, The others we have meetings next week on, some of the 4 day weeks have now been restored for the following offices Wimbledon , Streatham , Southwark , Abbeywood , New Cross , Catford , Anerley and Finchley church end. We hope to conclude Islington next week.

I am a little confused about geo route as we have never had an national agreement on the model. Yet in hundreds of offices throughout the UK offices and members choose to agree geo route revisions which made it harder to achieve a national agreement. Royal Mail has now agreed to the union being fully involved in the planning values of geo route 2008 and the walking speeds have been reduced , and the number of attendance calls have been increased. We still need to overhaul the planning values and to test where neccessary in a live environment in line with page 22 of the national agreement title work measurement.

Your other point about colleague share is simply not true the £5300 has been halved due to financial position of Royal Mail. Remember Royal Mail letters made £50 million profit last year , the whole of the Post Office made £350 million profit but not letters. Royal Mail`s financial plan for this transformation is to reach £300 million profit by year 3 and they have agreed with the Government not to repay the commercial loan for the life time of the plan and it does not take into account the new pension deficit which is predicted to be £10 million plus. Equally a 5% traffic loss or revenue fall could wipe out the plan.

Its easy to slag someone off for having an alternative view but our grandparents fought Hitlers nazi Germany in order to have freedom of speech but that should come with respect and responsibility and above all determine what kind of person you are..

Sadly Bitchface your post lacks both and answer the third.

I always try and keep my post to the point and myself and Lovejoy in particular seem to get a lot of abuse from people who seem to have no argument but abuse.
Big Daz
Posts: 5668
Joined: 17 Apr 2007, 20:27
Gender: Male

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by Big Daz »

Postbot wrote:
Then to add insult to injury we are told lifting d2d limits will enable us to take work of the likes of T.N.T. and co, next week and not for the first time I am DELIVERING T.N.T. d2d's it is a total joke. :hmmmm :hmmmm

Whoppe do, TNT is on the label. get over it!!!! 3 sets is 3 sets Rm do not get paid any less there is no such as thing as DSA DTD. DTD is not a regulatd market

TNT are doing work that the customer would otherwise have to do themselves, the customer does not interact with RML TNT acts on the customers behalf.


Look at the TNT website, customers can choose the following


If you want access to every postcode sector in the UK, TNT Post's own dedicated Royal Mail department can plan and book your door drop to be distributed alongside post delivered by the Royal Mail.

TNT Post expertise and account management


Therefore customers are not only paying for RMl to deliver leaflets they are paying TNT to mange the process of getting the leaflets to RML and liase with RML on their behalf
daveyeff
Posts: 4699
Joined: 12 Mar 2010, 19:38
Gender: Male

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by daveyeff »

Big Daz wrote:
daveyeff wrote:totally agree, anyone who works in a d.o. actually doing a walk, WILL be worse off, there is no ifs or buts about it.
Sorry your wrong, the upset is just as much that winners are only some of the delivery workforce and not all of them,

I was not aware that is was loosers only on the DTD/supplement issue :hmmmm

The only genric staement that can apply is that we have winners and loosers.

Im a delivery member Im 30 hours a week and I do not loose out on the money front, my ESA is less than the basic pay increase and my ESA is pro rata. My 80% of dtd calls/6 weeks leave is not enough to make me a looser.

However a FT from a former 0401 to 0500 start with say 700 calls and only 4 weeks leave will find themselves worse off even taken into account th
80% of 700 calls and FT ESA 1 would be around £40 most weeks some being higher on the weeks when we get 1.75 pence or some being lower if a week with 2 or less DTD happens. That is replaced by £27.54 X 52 weeks £1432.08 which is a £500 aprox drop over the 52 weeks. Now if the duty holder did not get ESA he would get £28 aprox over 45 weeks which is £1260.
not quite sure if i understand your figures, but the way i see it is, if under the existing agreement they gave you 6 lots of d2d a week at min 1.67p and you had 600 doors,and you got this for 46weeks(6 weeks off for annual leave) that would have earned you £2765.52, under the shite agreement then you woudve got, as you say £1432.08. a loss of £1333.44. and thats part time or full time.
gb93
Posts: 1462
Joined: 29 Oct 2009, 16:25
Gender: Male

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by gb93 »

OK Dingo dont want to resort to insults so will just say we have different opinions and maybe live in a different RM world.

You have quoted several times that 400 drops is the average, 2 questions.

1, How was that figure arrived at.

2, Who (CWU,RM) has verified this stat.

3, (oops sorry) Is this a national figure.

Lastly i never fell for the lazy work shy London postie drivel spouted by RM and the media, but sadly the more posts you do i begin to doubt myself.

SHAME ON ME (maybe).
This ain't no baseball game, you get only one chance and you blew it.
daveyeff
Posts: 4699
Joined: 12 Mar 2010, 19:38
Gender: Male

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by daveyeff »

in fact you,d be still worse off even if you had only 400 doors, by about 400 quid or so. i suppose you could argue that they may not give you 6 lots per week, maybe, but i VERY MUCH DOUBT IT. if they are getting them done for next to nowt you can put your house on it that we,ll get at LEAST 6. imagine how much you would lose if you were on 'westboure ave' (a gateshead d.o. walk) thats got 1037 calls. and you got 6 a week. i cannot see how anyone who does a delivery WONT be worse off by accepting this garbage
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 16650
Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
Gender: Male

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by dvbuk55 »

dingo wrote:It is a funny old world where people call people names over the internet. How pathetic is that, clearly people who either have no argument , not read the agreement, or do not believe that someone else can have a different opinion.
The problem is dingo that the opinions that are different are from people not on the front line and are totally unaffected by these changes, whose perspective of this agreement is totally different from people who will have to implement these changes day in and day out in a very often hostile environment. The discrimination to part time members is totally unacceptable and YES they should go back to the table and say we need to look again at some aspects of this agreement having LISTENED TO THE MEMBERS FOR ONCE.
mr deeds
Posts: 212
Joined: 18 Sep 2008, 17:23
Gender: Female

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by mr deeds »

sorry for offending you dingo but i do believe i never named anyone.......those that are ment to lead us are ment to listen to it's members not bullsh*t them will if's and maybe's thfact is that a lot of d/0 staff will lose a lot of money every single week.....now that wont matter to somebody on fulltime release who's not out on the streets for 3.5 hrs a day with a bag on y back (even longer with this deal)...but if you have not done a delivery for some time who are you to tell us that this is ok...get a bag on your back and have a go(not being funny but try it) its ok if you are on full time release (nice and warm office ) see us in a d/o get pasted every day as for mc staff they will get the axe next when rm come looking 4 mc closures if there is i/a for support for mc closures then yes i will go out in support....i did not go on the streets to agree to a pay cut like it or lump it if i go down then i'm sure there enough of us in the memebership to bring the nodding dogs down from there ivory towers and lose there ft release to be replace with someboby that listens to it's members

FULL SUPPORT TO LOCAL REPS AND ALL THOSE THAT HAVE LISTENED TO I'TS MEMBERS AND NOT MIEN KAMPH AT CWU HQ

YOU CANT POLISH A TURD

VOTE NO
k979aaa
Posts: 12578
Joined: 03 Sep 2007, 19:14
Gender: Male
Location: THE NORTH

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by k979aaa »

dingo wrote:
K979a althrough you call me a twat very classy , I will answer you in that of course the union had a policy 5 years ago in that they wanted the average wage and a 35 hour working week ( we have had policy since 1988 ). In 2003 the national wage stood at £243.16 after this deal it will stand at £393.73 which is an increase of £150.16 in 9 years , inner London weighting would have been increased by £194 and outer by £198. So the unions strategy of improving basic pay instead of over reliance on both overtime and allowances has worked. In terms of the shorter working week the hour off will mean that we are now working only 35 hours as meal reliefs are on top. We are at the very top of manual workers apart from the RMT and can you show me any other organisation in the trade union movement who has secured a shorter working week and a basic pay increase. You will not find one. In fact over 50% of claims resulted in no pay rises. Look at the BA dispute the union is offering to cut allowances in return for saving jobs, in PCS they are fighting to secure a redundancy package which is inferior to the one we have. You might choose to ingore that but its true.





I always try and keep my post to the point and myself and Lovejoy in particular seem to get a lot of abuse from people who seem to have no argument but abuse.
I Never called you that word!.
mr deeds
Posts: 212
Joined: 18 Sep 2008, 17:23
Gender: Female

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by mr deeds »

MUST BE A PHANTOM SELF ABUSER.......HE'S SPARTACUS....YES LETS VOTE FOR A PAY CUT....NOT
User avatar
POSTMAN
SITE ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 32819
Joined: 07 Aug 2006, 03:19
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Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by POSTMAN »

k979aaa wrote:
dingo wrote:
K979a althrough you call me a twat very classy , I will answer you in that of course the union had a policy 5 years ago in that they wanted the average wage and a 35 hour working week ( we have had policy since 1988 ). In 2003 the national wage stood at £243.16 after this deal it will stand at £393.73 which is an increase of £150.16 in 9 years , inner London weighting would have been increased by £194 and outer by £198. So the unions strategy of improving basic pay instead of over reliance on both overtime and allowances has worked. In terms of the shorter working week the hour off will mean that we are now working only 35 hours as meal reliefs are on top. We are at the very top of manual workers apart from the RMT and can you show me any other organisation in the trade union movement who has secured a shorter working week and a basic pay increase. You will not find one. In fact over 50% of claims resulted in no pay rises. Look at the BA dispute the union is offering to cut allowances in return for saving jobs, in PCS they are fighting to secure a redundancy package which is inferior to the one we have. You might choose to ingore that but its true.





I always try and keep my post to the point and myself and Lovejoy in particular seem to get a lot of abuse from people who seem to have no argument but abuse.
I Never called you that word!.
It looks like you've quoted someone who has called him a twat.
Dingo,it was mistaken identity mate.

But to others,if the s**t wasn't being said,then we wouldn't be having this convo!!
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
k979aaa
Posts: 12578
Joined: 03 Sep 2007, 19:14
Gender: Male
Location: THE NORTH

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by k979aaa »

OK thanks POSTMAN it can get heated on here but i never resort to personal abuse of any member on here.
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
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Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by fishtank »

k979aaa wrote:OK thanks POSTMAN it can get heated on here but i never resort to personal abuse of any member on here.

I wouldn't say that you don't know if :lfo or :cfo or :mfo are members. :hmmmm :chuckle :chuckle :chuckle
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
mr deeds
Posts: 212
Joined: 18 Sep 2008, 17:23
Gender: Female

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by mr deeds »

dingo how do i convince my wife and kids that i contribute £3 a week to a union that spends 3 months or more to represent me and they have worked so hard weve come out of it with a paycut /shorter working week and more work and maybe i'll see them for a couple of hours on a sat if i have not got any sat specific d2d......?
k979aaa
Posts: 12578
Joined: 03 Sep 2007, 19:14
Gender: Male
Location: THE NORTH

Re: Myths about the agreement

Post by k979aaa »

fishtank wrote:
k979aaa wrote:OK thanks POSTMAN it can get heated on here but i never resort to personal abuse of any member on here.

I wouldn't say that you don't know if :lfo or :cfo or :mfo are members. :hmmmm :chuckle :chuckle :chuckle
They are all members and up standing ones at that!.