What is your Branch Recommending?List.

[lovejoy]

Because you then getting mbrs to make a recomendation to themselves and in my D.O you cant even get mbrs to drive 20 mins up the road to attend a mbrs meeting about the proposals on weekday night when there is no work the next day.

Meetings were held in various locations across the branch area due to the geographical size of the branch.

No slight intended BD ,but why would members travel for 20 mins, to listen to how they should vote, and then be denied any say in the outcome of the recommendation. You can't use the failings of the status quo as a defense against change . As for members making a recommendation to themselves ,well you sort of contradict your first point completely . Either not many attend and therefore recommend to others,or lots attend and recommend to themselves but according to you that won't occur. For the sake of argument if it did occur , what is wrong with the participation of the greatest possible number in the decision making process at the earliest possible stage? Genuine question by the way

If you want your branch recommendations to be done via the whole membership then take it to your agm as a rule change motion.

[fishtank]

Well reps is better than a committee ,but why not involve as many members as possible and call an EGM ? Surely a more democratic option? Might even help to shore up membership numbers by increasing participation.

Our branch done this last week and even had Dave Ward and a PEC member who was involved in the negotiations in attendance, other then myself no other person from my office attended to ask questions and debate the agreement,when only a few weeks before they were mouthing off that they never see our area rep,it was the same old faces,which annoys me as this was a good chance for members to have there say face to face with a few of the big boys.

Did the members get to vote on the Branch recommendation?

[BELIAL]

Well reps is better than a committee ,but why not involve as many members as possible and call an EGM ? Surely a more democratic option? Might even help to shore up membership numbers by increasing participation.

Our branch done this last week and even had Dave Ward and a PEC member who was involved in the negotiations in attendance, other then myself no other person from my office attended to ask questions and debate the agreement,when only a few weeks before they were mouthing off that they never see our area rep,it was the same old faces,which annoys me as this was a good chance for members to have there say face to face with a few of the big boys.

Same old story johnnyp!

The important question is Lovejoy , do you and others in more senior positions see this as a deplorable lack of commitment /awareness of the membership in general, or ,as a failure of the leadership to convince the wider membership of the value and effectiveness of greater participation and involvement? I know how you have come across but I am open to persuasion

[lovejoy]

Well reps is better than a committee ,but why not involve as many members as possible and call an EGM ? Surely a more democratic option? Might even help to shore up membership numbers by increasing participation.

Our branch done this last week and even had Dave Ward and a PEC member who was involved in the negotiations in attendance, other then myself no other person from my office attended to ask questions and debate the agreement,when only a few weeks before they were mouthing off that they never see our area rep,it was the same old faces,which annoys me as this was a good chance for members to have there say face to face with a few of the big boys.

Same old story johnnyp!

The important question is Lovejoy , do you and others in more senior positions see this as a deplorable lack of commitment /awareness of the membership in general, or ,as a failure of the leadership to convince the wider membership of the value and effectiveness of greater participation and involvement? I know how you have come across but I am open to persuasion

It is a mixture of both really.

I know of branches that have called members meetings for recommendations on this deal and had 10 people there.

On the other hand there have been meetings of 200+

There is a huge apathy amongst the membership and society in general really but also some branches put far more effort in than others when it comes to comms / meetings etc

[BELIAL]

Because you then getting mbrs to make a recomendation to themselves and in my D.O you cant even get mbrs to drive 20 mins up the road to attend a mbrs meeting about the proposals on weekday night when there is no work the next day.

Meetings were held in various locations across the branch area due to the geographical size of the branch.

No slight intended BD ,but why would members travel for 20 mins, to listen to how they should vote, and then be denied any say in the outcome of the recommendation. You can't use the failings of the status quo as a defense against change . As for members making a recommendation to themselves ,well you sort of contradict your first point completely . Either not many attend and therefore recommend to others,or lots attend and recommend to themselves but according to you that won't occur. For the sake of argument if it did occur , what is wrong with the participation of the greatest possible number in the decision making process at the earliest possible stage? Genuine question by the way

If you want your branch recommendations to be done via the whole membership then take it to your agm as a rule change motion.

Not a question of what I want ,there's a lot of us but thanks for the pointer but the motion wheels are already in motion,we think it is a bit more democratic

[BELIAL]

The important question is Lovejoy , do you and others in more senior positions see this as a deplorable lack of commitment /awareness of the membership in general, or ,as a failure of the leadership to convince the wider membership of the value and effectiveness of greater participation and involvement? I know how you have come across but I am open to persuasion

t is a mixture of both really.

I know of branches that have called members meetings for recommendations on this deal and had 10 people there.

On the other hand there have been meetings of 200+

There is a huge apathy amongst the membership and society in general really but also some branches put far more effort in than others when it comes to comms / meetings etc

See what I'm saying ,and what you are saying. I don't elect an official to throw his hands in the air and say "what can I do" that is a lame excuse for laziness

[johnnyp]

Well reps is better than a committee ,but why not involve as many members as possible and call an EGM ? Surely a more democratic option? Might even help to shore up membership numbers by increasing participation.

Our branch done this last week and even had Dave Ward and a PEC member who was involved in the negotiations in attendance, other then myself no other person from my office attended to ask questions and debate the agreement,when only a few weeks before they were mouthing off that they never see our area rep,it was the same old faces,which annoys me as this was a good chance for members to have there say face to face with a few of the big boys.

Did the members get to vote on the Branch recommendation?

No they dont do that,the only vote they will make is in the national ballot.
All the unit reps had a meeting with the senior branch officals and debated the agreement and voted on a recommendation which was yes, they will go back to there units and pass this info on and the membership will then decide how they will vote.

[dvbuk55]

Well reps is better than a committee ,but why not involve as many members as possible and call an EGM ? Surely a more democratic option? Might even help to shore up membership numbers by increasing participation.

Our branch done this last week and even had Dave Ward and a PEC member who was involved in the negotiations in attendance, other then myself no other person from my office attended to ask questions and debate the agreement,when only a few weeks before they were mouthing off that they never see our area rep,it was the same old faces,which annoys me as this was a good chance for members to have there say face to face with a few of the big boys.

Did the members get to vote on the Branch recommendation?

No they dont do that,the only vote they will make is in the national ballot.
All the unit reps had a meeting with the senior branch officals and debated the agreement and voted on a recommendation which was yes, they will go back to there units and pass this info on and the membership will then decide how they will vote.

That is the whole issue of what is wrong with union membership in this day and age - the tail is wagging the dog - do the leadership feel that the membership need to be lead by the hand and are incapable of deciding what they want? That is not to say that is what they are going to get but at least they would be negotiating for those values they considered important for their terms and conditions, not what is best for the CWU - which is not necessarily the same.

[Exrep]

Shep my office is on merseyside and not once have i been asked by our branch what the feeling of my office is.

But on Saturday got the LTBS to hang on the notice board "The branch recommend a YES vote".

To be honest it felt rather embarrasing putting them up and no doudt they will be vandalised maybe thats why i got 9 copies.

I now edging my bets on this deal getting a yes vote by under handed means ,the whole thing is starting to stink to high heaven .

[johnnyp]

Well reps is better than a committee ,but why not involve as many members as possible and call an EGM ? Surely a more democratic option? Might even help to shore up membership numbers by increasing participation.

Our branch done this last week and even had Dave Ward and a PEC member who was involved in the negotiations in attendance, other then myself no other person from my office attended to ask questions and debate the agreement,when only a few weeks before they were mouthing off that they never see our area rep,it was the same old faces,which annoys me as this was a good chance for members to have there say face to face with a few of the big boys.

Did the members get to vote on the Branch recommendation?

No they dont do that,the only vote they will make is in the national ballot.
All the unit reps had a meeting with the senior branch officals and debated the agreement and voted on a recommendation which was yes, they will go back to there units and pass this info on and the membership will then decide how they will vote.

That is the whole issue of what is wrong with union membership in this day and age - the tail is wagging the dog - do the leadership feel that the membership need to be lead by the hand and are incapable of deciding what they want? That is not to say that is what they are going to get but at least they would be negotiating for those values they considered important for their terms and conditions, not what is best for the CWU - which is not necessarily the same.

I get your drift but what else can be done?
Unit reps should listen to there members then tell the branch what people are thinking and recommendations then made.
At the end of the day the members will decide what they want regardless of what the branch recommends.

[belle smith]

Well reps is better than a committee ,but why not involve as many members as possible and call an EGM ? Surely a more democratic option? Might even help to shore up membership numbers by increasing participation.

Our branch done this last week and even had Dave Ward and a PEC member who was involved in the negotiations in attendance, other then myself no other person from my office attended to ask questions and debate the agreement,when only a few weeks before they were mouthing off that they never see our area rep,it was the same old faces,which annoys me as this was a good chance for members to have there say face to face with a few of the big boys.

Did the members get to vote on the Branch recommendation?

In our branch, the meeting was open to all, if you turned up you got a vote as to how the branch recommended.

[Postal1]

Our Branch/ area rep is asking for a YES vote. Gave our area rep a really hard time in 1hr 30min meeting. That was just our section. Our local rep wouldn't even attend such was the ill feeling of even coming over trying to sell us this.

He had zero answers to the main issues.

[Exrep]

Postal after all the meetings ive attended over the last 4 weeks were Dave Ward,Billy Hayes and Bob Gibson have been present ,when asked main issue questions themselves have had no decent replies.

Theres one offer on the table with no scope of re-negoatiations and the CWU are just telling us to accept it.

In my option this is how a union shouldnt act fair enough at the end of the day its down to us the members but at least listen to your members an address the problems,instead they have stuck two fingers up at us all and said this is it well thats not acceptable.

Dont get me wrong i fully understand why the union have drew up this agreement and in the longer term is the right thing to do but give us an option and listen to us.

Oh well roll on when i get my ballot paper BIG X in the no box. Whats going to be really curious to see is what will happen if it is rejected.

Im not buying the propoganda R/M will just ride rought shot over us and implement what they chose at will ,it wont happen .

So its a case of watch this space .

[Big Daz]

Im not buying the propoganda R/M will just ride rought shot over us and implement what they chose at will ,it wont happen .

I agree with MoNkEyBoY, it would make a complete mockery of the transforming relationships section of infinty and beyond.

The best thing RML can do if its a no vote is to be humble and patient.

[fishtank]

Im not buying the propoganda R/M will just ride rought shot over us and implement what they chose at will ,it wont happen .

I agree with MoNkEyBoY, it would make a complete mockery of the transforming relationships section of infinty and beyond.

The best thing RML can do if its a no vote is to be humble and patient.

It makes no business sense either.

Royal Mail badly need an agreement.

A rejection does not mean there will not be an agreement.

But executive action would almost guarantee no agreement certainly this year.