The Outcome of the Ballot

[steve2zaf]

i am number six - i would like to say you are completely deluded (probably your medication )

[proper postie]

Change is vital for the survival of the business and a secure future, and the security of the workforce, Fact not opinion

On that I agree - however the change has to be for the right reasons, it has to bring the workforce with it, not just the CWU as an organisation. And to be frank the management style of Royal Mail has to change and though the agreement seeks to do just that, the selfish part of me thinks that its the workers that are sacrificing the most and the business reaping the benefits. I am willing to give RM a chance but after 2007 P&M perhaps you can see why people are wary of an agreement that is full of aims and commitments but short on promises and details.

Teebs, the changes in this agreement are neccessary for one overwhelmingly important reason: to protect jobs. Letters face the same future that vinyl records faced once the cd had been invented - they are being used / sent by fewer and fewer people. If the decline in traditional mail volumes is not offset by growing other products such as D2D, then more and more job losses become a reality, surely ?

The blame for us having to vote on an agreement that is 'full of aims and commitments but short on promises and details', however, lies squarely with the CWU's negotiators and with the Postal Executive, in my opinion. What the hell are they thinking of, approving a draft agreement that, after 4 months of talks, still contains more loose ends than the Tottenham team who famously had suspected food poisoning the night before a vital match ?

I missed this at the first time of reading,must have skimmed by it.Can you tell then,if mail volumes are falling why the bag weight (not even counting parcels) is getting heavier? Someone sure as f**k is sending mail when it gets to the stage that I have to leave tied up bundles on the bottom of the frame as the row wont take them.
Having to get half a first bag brought out as the box wont take doesn't indicate a drop in volume to me at all.DSA is thriving,and along with catologues/brochers that people routinely get I would argue that mail volumes are at an even keel,possibly higher.
Your point is valid in regards to hand written mail,other than that it is a false economy.

[I am number six]

i am number six - i would like to say you are completely deluded (probably your medication )

I could say the self same thing about you but that would start a slanting match which seems quite popular on the site.

Look, at the end of the day job security, and the future of the business is paramount

This agreement is not for the short term but for the long

Rather future security through this agreement that a short term fall which does not protect your jobs.

[clashcityrocker]

Having to get half a first bag brought out as the box wont take doesn't indicate a drop in volume to me at all.DSA is thriving,and along with catologues/brochers that people routinely get I would argue that mail volumes are at an even keel,possibly higher.
Your point is valid in regards to hand written mail,other than that it is a false economy.

I think you answer your own question. Your bag is as heavy as ever because of the brochures/catalogues.
One catalogue = how many letters?
Drop in volume but not in weight.

[POSTMAN]

This agreement is not for the short term but for the long

It's for 3 short years

[I am number six]

This agreement is not for the short term but for the long

It's for 3 short years

But overall the effect from this agreement will pave a way the future

[dvbuk55]

This agreement is not for the short term but for the long

It's for 3 short years

But overall the effect from this agreement will pave a way the future

Ah Yes - the old jam tomorrow theory.

Let me revisit that in the form of 50/50 shares on savings - any saving made would be shared between an office and RM - signed off by the CWU - AND I might add the creator of many of these so called weak manoeuvres decried by the union wannabes today - now our office has 40% part timers have lost countless hours and instituted CDV 18 months ago and how much did we get on shared savings over the two year period - eeeeeeeeeeeeerm sweet FA - now having brought in the changes 6 months later the union says NO MORE SAVINGS - well that was a little bit late.

This union and its minions are so very quick to blame a workforce that they have led into poor decisions and then have the gall to blame them.

There is I am afraid a stark choice between staying with the union who no longer have a grip on reality and leaving them to their own devices.

[DirtyHarry]

But overall the effect from this agreement will pave a way the future

A future no sane man would want to be part of, unless you're a man who wears a suit and tie to, errr, for want of a better word, work, whose workload depends on just how many pieces of paper he has to shuffle on any given day, does a straight Mon-Fri, and earns a good few thousand more than the poor saps delivering tons of shyte in all weathers.

Trouble with this deal, and every deal that has gone before it, is that it leaves the most dismal, demoralising, future for front-line staff, without whom there would not be a single penny's worth of profit, ever.

Also, this talk of "securing jobs" is becoming really tiresome, we are only secure in our jobs as long as knobjockeys in senior management decide it so.

[proper postie]

But overall the effect from this agreement will pave a way the future

A future no sane man would want to be part of, unless you're a man who wears a suit and tie to, errr, for want of a better word, work, whose workload depends on just how many pieces of paper he has to shuffle on any given day, does a straight Mon-Fri, and earns a good few thousand more than the poor saps delivering tons of shyte in all weathers.

Trouble with this deal, and every deal that has gone before it, is that it leaves the most dismal, demoralising, future for front-line staff, without whom there would not be a single penny's worth of profit, ever.

Also, this talk of "securing jobs" is becoming really tiresome, we are only secure in our jobs as long as knobjockeys in senior management decide it so.

This gets on my tits so it does.There is no such thing as a secure job,we all know that,yet the cwu and rm are trumpeting it without any concrete figures.

Vote yes,we'll secure your job

Just my job?

hey,who knows what's down the road,vote yes serf!

I don't want a part of rm profit,I never have,if I worked for A.N.Other company I wouldn't expect a dividend unless I was a shareholder,so why should I expect a cut here?

I just want a fair and equal playing field.A decent wage for a decent days work.Not going home and having to sleep in the afternoon as I'm absolutely f***ing shattered and waiting until my knees or hammy will go,and they will.

The workload is too much,yet it hasn't been addressed in the 'agreement'.Weight off the shoulder? how does a trolley work when you are lugging 20k up- and down flats?

Roll on the vote

[BELIAL]

There is I am afraid a stark choice between staying with the union who no longer have a grip on reality and leaving them to their own devices.

On the other hand if you take a more positive view there is another choice . If people are angered enough by this deal to prompt them to take an active role in shaping their futures , there has never been a better time. Union membership taking a nosedive , active participation almost non existent , a membership largely alienated by the high handed attitude and failure to communicate of our union officials, all these things create a perfect opportunity for those committed enough to work to transform this moribund old boys club. The very conditions that our complacent old career officials rely on to maintain their secure little worlds ,could ,with a little effort, prove to be their achilles heel.

[proper postie]

There is I am afraid a stark choice between staying with the union who no longer have a grip on reality and leaving them to their own devices.

On the other hand if you take a more positive view there is another choice . If people are angered enough by this deal to prompt them to take an active role in shaping their futures , there has never been a better time. Union membership taking a nosedive , active participation almost non existent , a membership largely alienated by the high handed attitude and failure to communicate of our union officials, all these things create a perfect opportunity for those committed enough to work to transform this moribund old boys club. The very conditions that our complacent old career officials rely on to maintain their secure little worlds ,could ,with a little effort, prove to be their achilles heel.

That's very noble in print,but how many have the stomach for it? Where do you even start?
How would you organize it?

We're just daft names on a screen here

[Tman]

I think you answer your own question. Your bag is as heavy as ever because of the brochures/catalogues.
One catalogue = how many letters?
Drop in volume but not in weight.

The mob will be burning you at the stake CCR. A postie accepting volumes are dropping? Heresy....

[BELIAL]

There is I am afraid a stark choice between staying with the union who no longer have a grip on reality and leaving them to their own devices.

On the other hand if you take a more positive view there is another choice . If people are angered enough by this deal to prompt them to take an active role in shaping their futures , there has never been a better time. Union membership taking a nosedive , active participation almost non existent , a membership largely alienated by the high handed attitude and failure to communicate of our union officials, all these things create a perfect opportunity for those committed enough to work to transform this moribund old boys club. The very conditions that our complacent old career officials rely on to maintain their secure little worlds ,could ,with a little effort, prove to be their achilles heel.

That's very noble in print,but how many have the stomach for it? Where do you even start?
How would you organize it?

We're just daft names on a screen here

Have a think about it . Take the first step , it starts with you . How would YOU organise it? It works much better if you don't wait around hoping someone else will tell you what they think you should do. Why not shape your own future ,it's up to everyone to make their branch democratic and more representative. Bet my bottom dollar that your branch like most others is so poorly attended that it is ripe for the plucking with next to no effort.