DVBUK 55's VIEWS ON WHAT HAPPENS IF IT IS A NO

[lovejoy]

Simple question lovejoy, why wasnt PHG & DRIVERS allowance not included in the delivery supplement.

These allowances are lost when people leave just as ESA why werent these captured for the benefit of all.

I am not sure is the straight answer

[BELIAL]

Care to put a figure on the number of jobs this deal will save Lovejoy?

No because I don't know but what I am sure of is that Royal Mail at the offset of this dispute wanted the 'dutch model' in deliveries. The dutch have a 25/75 FT ratio.

This agreement commits them to a 75/25 so I would say thats many thousands and I'm sure you'll do the maths!.... on top of this commitment D2D into workload will protect jobs as will the shorter working week!

Thanks for your honesty, but blimey ,4 months of talks;access to all figures ;lots a fine details and yet no figure for jobs saved but frequently repeated claims of increased job security.

You must see the flaw in your Dutch model/ 75/25 argument . Committing to a 75/25 ratio is no guarantee of job security whatsoever . 90,000 FT out of 120,000 workforce is 75/25 but so is 60,000 FT out of an 80,000 workforce, it does not give job security

[lovejoy]

Care to put a figure on the number of jobs this deal will save Lovejoy?

No because I don't know but what I am sure of is that Royal Mail at the offset of this dispute wanted the 'dutch model' in deliveries. The dutch have a 25/75 FT ratio.

This agreement commits them to a 75/25 so I would say thats many thousands and I'm sure you'll do the maths!.... on top of this commitment D2D into workload will protect jobs as will the shorter working week!

Thanks for your honesty, but blimey ,4 months of talks;access to all figures ;lots a fine details and yet no figure for jobs saved but frequently repeated claims of increased job security.

You must see the flaw in your Dutch model/ 75/25 argument . Committing to a 75/25 ratio is no guarantee of job security whatsoever . 90,000 FT out of 120,000 workforce is 75/25 but so is 60,000 FT out of an 80,000 workforce, it does not give job security

I am not saying there isnt a figure of the number of jobs that have been protected I am just saying I don't know it.

[spiderwoods]

.

[apple]

Care to put a figure on the number of jobs this deal will save Lovejoy?

No because I don't know but what I am sure of is that Royal Mail at the offset of this dispute wanted the 'dutch model' in deliveries. The dutch have a 25/75 FT ratio.

This agreement commits them to a 75/25 so I would say thats many thousands and I'm sure you'll do the maths!.... on top of this commitment D2D into workload will protect jobs as will the shorter working week!

the agreement states-
Royal Mail has explored various resourcing models for operations in a
mechanised environment and in conjunction with the CWU has concluded that
the best model is a flexible workforce, predominantly full time supported by part
time employees. The mix of full time and part time is planned to be around
three quarters full time and one quarter part time by 2013.

how i read the agreement i feel it does not commit them to 75-25 at all, it just says they plan to be around that, as i read it no way to hold them to that is there?
commit and plan have two different meanings to me

[lovejoy]

Care to put a figure on the number of jobs this deal will save Lovejoy?

No because I don't know but what I am sure of is that Royal Mail at the offset of this dispute wanted the 'dutch model' in deliveries. The dutch have a 25/75 FT ratio.

This agreement commits them to a 75/25 so I would say thats many thousands and I'm sure you'll do the maths!.... on top of this commitment D2D into workload will protect jobs as will the shorter working week!

the agreement states-
Royal Mail has explored various resourcing models for operations in a
mechanised environment and in conjunction with the CWU has concluded that
the best model is a flexible workforce, predominantly full time supported by part
time employees. The mix of full time and part time is planned to be around
three quarters full time and one quarter part time by 2013.

how i read the agreement i feel it does not commit them to 75-25 at all, it just says they plan to be around that, as i read it no way to hold them to that is there?
commit and plan have two different meanings to me

If you look at all RM briefs they are committed to the 75/25 split and quarterly meetings at national level will take place to make sure this is honoured.

[lovejoy]

Lovejoy if what you say is the case then why are the CWU even bothering to send out ballot papers?? SOLD DOWN THE RIVER!!

Because at the end of it all it is the members choice.

A post given an individuals view of what would happen in the event of a no vote was made and I have replied giving my view. I am one of 120,000 people getting a ballot paper.

The trouble with this site is some people don't like alternative opinions. I have seen some absolute rubbish on here about why to vote no but I have respected those individuals rights to an opinion. Surely you can do the same?

[HootyMacBoob]

Simple question lovejoy, why wasnt PHG & DRIVERS allowance not included in the delivery supplement.

These allowances are lost when people leave just as ESA why werent these captured for the benefit of all.

Thats a good point gb93

[taxi4leighton]

ok lovejoy i dont agree with you,but say this deal is accepted
what then happens to distrubtion?
barely mentioned in this agreement
but that is where the real savings can be made
i feel that when this has been accepted
that distrubtion will be blitzed

[lovejoy]

ok lovejoy i dont agree with you,but say this deal is accepted
what then happens to distrubtion?
barely mentioned in this agreement
but that is where the real savings can be made
i feel that when this has been accepted
that distrubtion will be blitzed

Distribution are covered off in the agreement like everyone else with the lump sum payments triggered by revisions.

With Distributions there is only a certain amount of savings that can be made (warehouse etc). Collections and runs have to take place no matter what happens.

I didn't start this thread to debate the agreement - thats done to death I think.

I started it to debate the realities of the aftermath of a no vote rather than the fantasy view that was being put our their - obviously in my own personal opinion.

[apple]

Care to put a figure on the number of jobs this deal will save Lovejoy?

No because I don't know but what I am sure of is that Royal Mail at the offset of this dispute wanted the 'dutch model' in deliveries. The dutch have a 25/75 FT ratio.

This agreement commits them to a 75/25 so I would say thats many thousands and I'm sure you'll do the maths!.... on top of this commitment D2D into workload will protect jobs as will the shorter working week!

the agreement states-
Royal Mail has explored various resourcing models for operations in a
mechanised environment and in conjunction with the CWU has concluded that
the best model is a flexible workforce, predominantly full time supported by part
time employees. The mix of full time and part time is planned to be around
three quarters full time and one quarter part time by 2013.

how i read the agreement i feel it does not commit them to 75-25 at all, it just says they plan to be around that, as i read it no way to hold them to that is there?
commit and plan have two different meanings to me

If you look at all RM briefs they are committed to the 75/25 split and quarterly meetings at national level will take place to make sure this is honoured.

not a union rep or anything, RM briefs are not what we are being asked to vote on and not what both sides will be held accountable to, the wording is too much like the last agreement, it can be read both ways, at the moment there seems to be a lot of, for want of a better word, spin going around
Let the union give everyone a copy of the agreement, not what seems to be happening, them showing the highlights and not giving the staff the full picture

[mucker]

If you chose to ignore realities then carry on.

realitie in you opinion Mate,if you chose to ignore what the members think of your deal you can carry on.......

[belle smith]

Absoulute rubbish. The CWU achieved a number of conference policies in this agreement.... The outdoor department sent out a delivery blueprint to branches 12 montsh ago setting out the CWU aims..... every single one has been reached. The focus of our negotiators led to acas being involved and the focus of our negotiators turned over RMs original position on everything!

I'm sure thats true Lovejoy, but the vast majority of members myself included have no idea what policies are passed at confrence and what the implacations of these are, d2d into workload and basic pay, has in all likelyhood been confrence policy for ever and a day. The reality is that members didn't know about it and are many are clearly unhappy with the way it will work in practice.

To be clear i'm not blaming you personally

Roll on the insults /////

Having fun Lovejoy?

[Cut Off King]

Just wanted to add that the reason for the passion is that this isn't a game. It is real life. Jobs, futures, strikes and the Industry. I care thats all as I know you all do.

Your right,It isn't a game
Most of us have 20 or 30 years still to work in RM
Thats why we don't want a SH*T deal that will mean we will be lucky if we last 10 years in the job before were forced out by the "top 10%"

Sorry but it's still a NO from me...

[OnAFlyer]

If you chose to ignore realities then carry on.

realitie in you opinion Mate,if you chose to ignore what the members think of your deal you can carry on.......

I think he is being realistic. A no vote won't stop all this coming in, all I wanted out of this agreement was a decent pay rise to compensate for what's inevitably to come - unfortunately I won't get a pay rise at all (even after the 2%), and that's the most disappointing thing about it for me (along with the later Saturdays).

I'm amazed the CWU are selling delivery staff a pay deal like this. We haven't had a pay rise since 2008 and won't get one under this deal, next years it a pitiful 1.5% so it's an effective pay freeze for me from 2008-2012, and even the 3.5% then isn't definite!

The rest of the crap I expected, because the CWU's recent track record for securing us decent agreements isn't exactly great is it?