One absolute sure and solid reason to NOT vote yes!

[Lincox]

Well Tman, you said it, adequate compensation. Also I am sure any self respecting judge would also take into account health and safety issues such as longer walks with no limitation, no taking account of capabilities due to age, phsical impairments etc etc.

[fishtank]

Plan B is adhere to members wishes and return to the negotiating table - that's the LAW in a democracy.

Plan b, is.....er.....to... stand on a picket line and watch a agency guy do my job, come on guys, do you really think if it’s a no vote then the cwu would not call a strike?????? .....

Not an option studmuffin.
Not even the combined efforts of all of the snakeoil salesmen in this union could get the membership to vote for another bout of industrial action.
That ship has sailed.. They blew their chance and Billy,Dave,Bob & co are VERY aware of that.
Hence the desperation to sell a crappy deal by any means necessary incuding scaring the crap out of the membership with nonsense like this.

banddy wrote
THEY WILL BRING IN THE CHANGES - THE WAY THEY WANT - WITHOUT LOCAL INPUT/NEGOTIATION and YOU WONT GET MANY OF THE BENEFITS.
Glabally, mail volumes are falling - jobs are being lost and wage increases are few and far between - some are getting wages cut (BA).
the EU parliament, the tories and even the crwtins (mandelson,brown etc) in the 'New Labour' party all have it in for us (CWU) in Royal Mail.
they have lost sight of the fact it is a postal 'service' and want to privatise it.
BETTER the devil you know!?

What next,the bogeyman will get you if you vote no.

[Tman]

Well Tman, you said it, adequate compensation. Also I am sure any self respecting judge would also take into account health and safety issues such as longer walks with no limitation, no taking account of capabilities due to age, phsical impairments etc etc.

I'm sure any judge wouldn't concern himself with any of those issues, because apart from the fact that that aspect wasn't part of the case in question, he would say that's for the employer to decide and act upon anyway.
Then again, if he believes the commonly-held (mis)conception, he probably feels RM staff are under-worked and bone-idle, and only moaning now as things are about to get harder.

[mountec1]

I am going to vote yes even though i have not read the agreement and i doubt most of you have yet,because it doesn't matter what ever the union came up with, you lot would have still voted no because that's the nature of this forum.

You must be a very lazy or stupid person for
1. Not reading the agreement
2. Voting on something you know nothing about (see 1.)

bet you will be the first to complain when your job changes

No i won't be the first to complain because the job changes are already coming in my office and i have been on every strike, official and unofficial strike in the thirty three years i been working for the royal mail and i have been on strike since june and i am not prepared to lose any more money since these changes will come in whether you like it or not.

[fishtank]

No i won't be the first to complain because the job changes are already coming in my office and i have been on every strike, official and unofficial strike in the thirty three years i been working for the royal mail and i have been on strike since june and i am not prepared to lose any more money since these changes will come in whether you like it or not.

So i take it you won't lose out financially in this deal or do i smell a VR package in the offing?

[studmuffin]

Plan B is adhere to members wishes and return to the negotiating table - that's the LAW in a democracy.

Plan b, is.....er.....to... stand on a picket line and watch a agency guy do my job, come on guys, do you really think if it’s a no vote then the cwu would not call a strike?????? .....

Not an option studmuffin.
Not even the combined efforts of all of the snakeoil salesmen in this union could get the membership to vote for another bout of industrial action.
That ship has sailed.. They blew their chance and Billy,Dave,Bob & co are VERY aware of that.
Hence the desperation to sell a crappy deal by any means necessary incuding scaring the crap out of the membership with nonsense like this.

banddy wrote
THEY WILL BRING IN THE CHANGES - THE WAY THEY WANT - WITHOUT LOCAL INPUT/NEGOTIATION and YOU WONT GET MANY OF THE BENEFITS.
Glabally, mail volumes are falling - jobs are being lost and wage increases are few and far between - some are getting wages cut (BA).
the EU parliament, the tories and even the crwtins (mandelson,brown etc) in the 'New Labour' party all have it in for us (CWU) in Royal Mail.
they have lost sight of the fact it is a postal 'service' and want to privatise it.
BETTER the devil you know!?

What next,the bogeyman will get you if you vote no.

Ok, so if it’s a no vote, what next????? I will cut to the chase, black and white, like it or not, this crap deal will be voted in, history shows that will happen. So all plan b arguments and whatever is irrevalant
of all the bitter disputes, in last 20 years that involved have involved strike action, there is only one dispute where we kicked royal mail asses, and their shitty deal, into touch, and that was the employee agenda dispute of 1996, and you have to remember then, that we didn’t have the vultures of tnt, dhl and ukmail flying overhead fighting for the scraps of 'competion'
employee agenda, did eventually rear its ugly head as 'the way forward' in 2000, and at the time we all cried and moaned about what a shitty deal that was, the result: - voted in by the narrowest of margins, the pay and modernisation farce of 2007, we all cried and moaned about another shafting from the union, the result; - voted in AGAIN by the narrowest of margins. This time, we will be bending over and taking it with plenty of grease, as another 'mickey mouse, not worth the paper it’s written on' deal gets voted in
Cannot you see a pattern??? The only way to change this is to change the deadwood at the top, but then I think even this would not work, as I don’t think we haven’t seen anything yet, the REAL fight will begin when the tories sell us off.....

[Stormproof]

I am going to vote yes even though i have not read the agreement and i doubt most of you have yet,because it doesn't matter what ever the union came up with, you lot would have still voted no because that's the nature of this forum.

You must be a very lazy or stupid person for
1. Not reading the agreement
2. Voting on something you know nothing about (see 1.)

bet you will be the first to complain when your job changes

No i won't be the first to complain because the job changes are already coming in my office and i have been on every strike, official and unofficial strike in the thirty three years i been working for the royal mail and i have been on strike since june and i am not prepared to lose any more money since these changes will come in whether you like it or not.

I can't believe that someone who supposedly has been on 'every strike, official and unofficial' is going to roll over and take this agreement. OK you've done 33 years, so you are quite happy to screw your colleagues who still have another 33 years to go Obviously after 33 years your backbone has disintergrated

[proper postie]

I am going to vote yes even though i have not read the agreement and i doubt most of you have yet,because it doesn't matter what ever the union came up with, you lot would have still voted no because that's the nature of this forum.

Do you realise this post makes you look really stupid? You are going to vote Yes for why? You have no reasons and you don't know what you are voting for yet you are patronising people here who HAVE read the agreement and are making an informed decision. This forum is full of people saying what needs to be in a new Agreement so you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

The reason i joined is to annoy people like you and the fact is most of the changes are coming in now whether you like it or not and it's funny how people have read the agreement when the union have not even sent it out yet.

You've managed to find this forum,but you still haven't managed to find the 'proposed' agreement?
It's been online over a fortnight.

[belle smith]

It doesn't matter WHAT RM put in their correspoindence to you. The bottom line in a court of law is - is there a breach of employment law occuring. A change on this scale MUST be agreed or it is clearly illegal looking at the simple and clear wording here.

If you think changing employee's start/finishing times or changing thier workload in some way is a big enough change to mount a legal challenge, then go for it. Probably be laughed out of court, though, if it even got that far.
Apart from the fact that companies have been allowed to make some changes arbitrarily since employment laws were first drafted by citing the reason of "business necessities", RM would argue that this proposal has been negotiated with the employee's union AND is being put to a general vote. Hardly non-agreed or imposed.

Tman i'm in the dubious position of agreeing with you, a legal challenge is a non starter.
I would add however if RM introduced changes to Delivery spans (increases) under EA, and some members off staff were physically unable to do them (many will be) those indaviduals would have a case for constructive dismissal.
Would the union support them, being signatories to the agreement?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

The reason i joined is to annoy people like you

Be careful what you post then. I would not want to Moderate you too harshly.

[Big Daz]

and it's funny how people have read the agreement when the union have not even sent it out yet.

It is on the CWU website tucked away in LTB 195/10 - Business Transformation - 2010 and Beyond, Ive just checked it this very minute and its there and has been since the 8th march.

Go to the, To view this download, please click here download the LTB as a word document and on page 7 of 8 is the agreement as a PDF doc.

[youwot!!!!!]

Vote no! Stand up for yourself and your fellow colleagues!

now were your fellow colleagues are we.
OUR fellow colleagues who worked through the strikes last year now need US

[eian687]

Surely no one would be as gullible to vote 'yes' on this agreement because there is no plan B?

Vote no! Stand up for yourself and your fellow colleagues! Do not listen to the propaganda machine of the CWU/Royal Mail. And certainly don't fall for their lines of

'it's the best deal considering the financial situation were in'

or

'there is no plan B'

or

'if we don't vote this in they'll bring in the changes anyway'


Let them bring/force in their changes at least you have tried to stand up for yourself by voting no. You would still have your self respect knowing you voted no or is a few bits of silver worth more?

DAVE AND BILLY SHOULD NOW BE WORKING ON A PLAN B ..................ffs dont they read this site

[belle smith]

Vote no! Stand up for yourself and your fellow colleagues!

now were your fellow colleagues are we.
OUR fellow colleagues who worked through the strikes last year now need US

Who are you talking about here???

[Steviea34]

If they want change they MUST have an agreement, otherwise they are making changes to your contract without consent and that is illegal and can be challenged in court.

Sadly that's not true. Employers do have the right to change contracts of employment as they see fit. The only proviso is that sufficient notice (or financial compensation) of the change must be given.

Yes, afraid so