What happens If its a No Result

[Big Daz]

It was Mandy Pandy that linked modernisation and pension deficit together, he is now being put on the spot to keep his word. Perhaps it was a con trick from the Lord of darkness.

That said there is no modernisation as yet , just a set of words.

Where did he say this Daz, by the way it is a con trick! WE WILL GET OUR PENSIONS with or without a yes vote, we have a legal entitelment to them. It wont be decided on the f***ing whim of overlord mandelson, or his holiday companion boy george!!!

He told that to Big Dave and Billy, that is why Big Dave and Billy are pressing him so hard. Did I really just say that?


This is from the CWU time to deliver pension doc

29 To Lord Mandelson there was a practical link between tackling the pensions deficit and modernising the industry:

“The pension scheme represents a major burden for Royal Mail in spite of recent changes made to
address it. In my view, it is inconceivable that the public will accept such a ‘bail out’ without the
government taking steps that the company has a transformed future. The fact is that it has not
modernised sufficiently under present policies. There needs to be a step change, and the public
needs to see this. The new arrangements will also require the approval of the European Commission”. (Hansard 1067 10/03/09).

30 We shall return to the need for European Commission approval in due course. For now, it is sufficient to note that Lord Mandelson says that the public will not accept the government taking on the pension deficit unless the company has a “transformed future”.

31 This is not synonymous with privatisation. Were it so, Lord Mandelson would have so defined it. Rather, a transformed future, must be understood to be about the service and functioning of the industry, i.e. that it is sufficiently modernised.

32 The CWU certainly endorses the need for a transformation of the industry, and its complete modernisation. However, we do not accept that as identical to privatisation. The Compass pamphlet ‘Modernisation By Consent’ clearly demonstrates this.

[Big Daz]

In the House of Lords.

Mandelson said that the recommendations of the Hooper report should be implemented as a package. He also said that he didn't think the EU would allow the UK government to take on the pension liability as this would be seen as state aid. He must have been aware that the EU allowed the French government to take over the pension liability of its postal service.

The government in the PSB had every intention of taking on the PD and intended to seek European state aid clearance. I belive Mandy also said that EU clearance would not be given without modernisation or words to that effect. I recall touching on that in a letter to my MP.

[MinisterofCucumber]

From Hansard:

"Lord Mandelson: My Lords, as we discussed during the Bill's passage through this House, the pensions deficit is a huge and growing burden on the Royal Mail. Annual payments to pensioners in the plan currently run at around £1 billion. However, government have to be fair to taxpayers. They cannot expect them to take responsibility for the deficit if the other challenges facing Royal Mail are not also addressed. As I said, it would be irresponsible for the Government to cherry-pick implementation of the Bill. It would be irresponsible in respect of the taxpayer and impossible in respect of the European Commission, which would have to give state aid approval. As for the regulator, Postcomm will continue to regulate the postal market for the time being. It will not do so in a vacuum. Its powers will remain the same, but it will have to take full account of developments in the postal market, where volumes are falling at unprecedented levels."

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 1-0002.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mandelson said this on 1st July 2009 but on 10th October 2007,

"Acting under the EC Treaty rules on state aid, the European Commission has authorised the aid planned by France for the reform of the arrangements for financing the retirement pensions of civil servants working for La Poste. The authorisation is subject to conditions to ensure that La Poste and its competitors are placed on an equal footing as regards social security contributions and tax."


http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... IP/07/1465" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What made Mandelson think it would be 'impossible'?

[dvbuk55]

Very interesting that - just as a matter of interest - has the CWU said anything about the pension recently, apart from how there wouldn't be any movement on the pension unless there was a yes vote and then they would be approaching the government.................................................

[Big Daz]

The government have allready been approached Mandy replied that with no deal on pensions yet as CWU mbrs might vote no.

CWU will continue to press the government, if the government dont play ball then DW says moral support from the CWU should be withdrawn as well as the GE funding. thats his view and he says the PEC as well, however the decision is NEC not PEC the T&FS EC will play a part in the moral support decision. GE funding is a settled issue with clear policy which will be enacted if no governmnet intervention on pensions.

[dvbuk55]

The government have allready been approached Mandy replied that with no deal on pensions yet as CWU mbrs might vote no.

CWU will continue to press the government, if the government dont play ball then DW says moral support from the CWU should be withdrawn as well as the GE funding. thats his view and he says the PEC as well, however the decision is NEC not PEC the T&FS EC will play a part in the moral support decision. GE funding is a settled issue with clear policy which will be enacted if no governmnet intervention on pensions.

Which government is he on about, this one or the next one because by the time this agreement goes to ballot and counted we'll be on the vinegar strokes of the election, Parliament will have been dissolved and there'll be just a few days before voting - lashings of snake oil here - and the next cry - "we need to support labour to get them back into power" - I'm long in the tooth, seen it all before, but in truth I don't think I've ever seen a union quite so divorced from the grass roots as this one and bear in mind I went through a privatisation before with a union, like this one, faced with exclusion but even they weren't so blatant in their obvious self preservation.

[Big Daz]

This one.

All will be revealed in the Labour manifesto, which I expect will be out at some point in the next two weeks. The manifesto needs to be crystal clear on pensions and any pre conditions.

[dvbuk55]

This one.

All will be revealed in the Labour manifesto, which I expect will be out at some point in the next two weeks. The manifesto needs to be crystal clear on pensions and any pre conditions.

I well remember the Warwick agreement, lest we forget, this leadership and this Government have had years to rectify the pensions deficit and defend not just our rights but the rights of the working class in general and done sweet FA - now you tell me that in the election manifesto the labour party are going to promise a new deal, well the snake oil will be in commercial quantities for that and I would rather vote Green than have them back in power.

[belle smith]

This one.

All will be revealed in the Labour manifesto, which I expect will be out at some point in the next two weeks. The manifesto needs to be crystal clear on pensions and any pre conditions.

If it is, hope that wouldn't entail funding for the Genral election.

[belle smith]

This one.

All will be revealed in the Labour manifesto, which I expect will be out at some point in the next two weeks. The manifesto needs to be crystal clear on pensions and any pre conditions.

I well remember the Warwick agreement, lest we forget, this leadership and this Government have had years to rectify the pensions deficit and defend not just our rights but the rights of the working class in general and done sweet FA - now you tell me that in the election manifesto the labour party are going to promise a new deal, well the snake oil will be in commercial quantities for that and I would rather vote Green than have them back in power.

That will be music to Daz's ears.

[Big Daz]

This one.

All will be revealed in the Labour manifesto, which I expect will be out at some point in the next two weeks. The manifesto needs to be crystal clear on pensions and any pre conditions.

I well remember the Warwick agreement, lest we forget, this leadership and this Government have had years to rectify the pensions deficit and defend not just our rights but the rights of the working class in general and done sweet FA - now you tell me that in the election manifesto the labour party are going to promise a new deal, well the snake oil will be in commercial quantities for that and I would rather vote Green than have them back in power.

You misunderstand

I want to know what is the policy of a 4th term Labour government on all issues pertinent to RMG. In paticular the PSB which was suspended. Will they stand by that or will a complete reversal take place and the sell off dropped and the rest of the PSB will proceed under a 4th term Labour government .

I am 100% convinced that the manifesto will englighten us as to what the plans are under a 4th term Labour government.

If the sell off is in the manifesto then a full blown dissafillation ballot should take place. Personally I think that should take place anyway. The membership should decide if we are to support Labour for a 4th term not the NEC. Action on pensions is not a good enough reason to keep the link. It is long ovedue for the mbrs to pass judgement on the link regardless of any changes to government policy.

[Big Daz]

This one.

All will be revealed in the Labour manifesto, which I expect will be out at some point in the next two weeks. The manifesto needs to be crystal clear on pensions and any pre conditions.

I well remember the Warwick agreement, lest we forget, this leadership and this Government have had years to rectify the pensions deficit and defend not just our rights but the rights of the working class in general and done sweet FA - now you tell me that in the election manifesto the labour party are going to promise a new deal, well the snake oil will be in commercial quantities for that and I would rather vote Green than have them back in power.

That will be music to Daz's ears.

Every little helps

Once dvbuk sees the Green manifesto he will be asking me for a membership form

[dvbuk55]

This one.

All will be revealed in the Labour manifesto, which I expect will be out at some point in the next two weeks. The manifesto needs to be crystal clear on pensions and any pre conditions.

I well remember the Warwick agreement, lest we forget, this leadership and this Government have had years to rectify the pensions deficit and defend not just our rights but the rights of the working class in general and done sweet FA - now you tell me that in the election manifesto the labour party are going to promise a new deal, well the snake oil will be in commercial quantities for that and I would rather vote Green than have them back in power.

That will be music to Daz's ears.

Every little helps

Once dvbuk sees the Green manifesto he will be asking me for a membership form

F*ck it, send it me now - I am that desperate

[Big Daz]

http://join.greenparty.org.uk/membership/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dvbuk55]

http://join.greenparty.org.uk/membership/index.html

Sorry BD - I think I'll be joining these and get in on the ground floor


http://www.thepensionersparty.org/

Who knows, by the time I'm 90 I could be resident political officer