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[fishtank]

The sad thing is the money issue is the least of our worries in this deal.

Indeed CCR but who is going to sit and explain the more complex problems with this deal to their members.....and who will listen?

[Just_My_Opinion]

Im tallking about real money being earnt right hear and now, not potential earnings. I deal in figures on payslips and whether they go up or down in a few weeks time.

You can not lose what you never had.

Look I work 30 hours a week now and will continue to do so, there is no way on earth I can go above 3 sets of DTD a week without alterations to my duty.

All this talk of extra work is really quite amusing and is based on nothing more than a lack of faith of DTD into workload doing what it says on the tin. The way some complain you would think DTD isnt planned on going into workload.

30 hours I do now and 30 hours I shall do after revision activty.

Second time, so YOUR NOT JUSTIFYING this deal in any way, shape or form?

[fishtank]

All this talk of extra work is really quite amusing and is based on nothing more than a lack of faith of DTD into workload doing what it says on the tin. The way some complain you would think DTD isnt planned on going into workload.

30 hours I do now and 30 hours I shall do after revision activty.

What is D2D into workload and what does it mean in a duty revision Daz?
And when you do your 30hrs will it be in line with the as yet unseen performance standards?

[Big Daz]

Explaining and justfying are two different things, lets not get muddled up shall we?

Big Daz you don't seem to have understood one basic fact.
Either you subscribe to the "Dave and Billy are corrupt. Gibson's an idiot. It's all about the gravy train" train of thought or you are an apologist for the deal.
Either you know someone with 6000 drops who will be losing about 10 million squids/year when we are doing 1000 D2D every day or you are out of touch with the membership.
The sad thing is the money issue is the least of our worries in this deal.

Totally dissagree

Why cant I subscribe to the Dave and his officers are incompetent thought process? Billy really does not have much to do with this does he? It's Dave and his officers and the PEC you need to direct your anger to.

If you have issues with CWU work in the political arena then you can well and truly direct your anger towards Billy.

I dont know anyone with Six thousand drops

The closest to that is a urban bike round with a figure in the 600's (thats the 100% figure not the 80% figure on which DTD are claimed) that does not have IPS and where the duty holder does not earn shift allowance. So thats 27.54 a week instead of DTD and paid 52 weeks a year. And yes i do realise that someone getting the 12.37 may well see figures on payslip go down.

[Just_My_Opinion]

Explaining and justfying are two different things, lets not get muddled up shall we?

Big Daz you don't seem to have understood one basic fact.
Either you subscribe to the "Dave and Billy are corrupt. Gibson's an idiot. It's all about the gravy train" train of thought or you are an apologist for the deal.
Either you know someone with 6000 drops who will be losing about 10 million squids/year when we are doing 1000 D2D every day or you are out of touch with the membership.
The sad thing is the money issue is the least of our worries in this deal.

Totally dissagree

Why cant I subscribe to the Dave and his officers are incompetent thought process? Billy really does not have much to do with this does he? It's Dave and his officers and the PEC you need to direct your anger to.

If you have issues with CWU work in the political arena then you can well and truly direct your anger towards Billy.

I dont know anyone with Six thousand drops

The closest to that is a urban bike round with a figure in the 600's (thats the 100% figure not the 80% figure on which DTD are claimed) that does not have IPS and where the duty holder does not earn shift allowance. So thats 27.54 a week instead of DTD and paid 52 weeks a year. And yes i do realise that someone getting the 12.37 may well see figures on payslip go down.

Third time, so YOUR NOT JUSTIFYING this deal in any way, shape or form?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Third time, so YOUR NOT JUSTIFYING this deal in any way, shape or form?

Just a quick point why would Daz Justify a deal he has had no input in. His job as a rep is either to recommend, or not, the deal to his members. Its up to his conscience which way he decides to go.

justification - the act of defending or explaining or making excuses for by reasoning.

So I suppose the answer to your question is No he is not justifying it he may be recommending it but asking him to justify it is a bit steep IMHO. The only people who should be justifying the deal are the officers of the CWU and the negotiators they appointed.

[Just_My_Opinion]

Third time, so YOUR NOT JUSTIFYING this deal in any way, shape or form?

Just a quick point why would Daz Justify a deal he has had no input in. His job as a rep is either to recommend, or not, the deal to his members. Its up to his conscience which way he decides to go.

justification - the act of defending or explaining or making excuses for by reasoning.

So I suppose the answer to your question is No he is not justifying it he may be recommending it but asking him to justify it is a bit steep IMHO. The only people who should be justifying the deal are the officers of the CWU and the negotiators they appointed.

Surely any CWU rep could say whether or not they feel this agreement is justified? My rep has made it quite clear it can't be justified and we have been sold out.

[proper postie]

Explaining and justfying are two different things, lets not get muddled up shall we?

Big Daz you don't seem to have understood one basic fact.
Either you subscribe to the "Dave and Billy are corrupt. Gibson's an idiot. It's all about the gravy train" train of thought or you are an apologist for the deal.
Either you know someone with 6000 drops who will be losing about 10 million squids/year when we are doing 1000 D2D every day or you are out of touch with the membership.
The sad thing is the money issue is the least of our worries in this deal.

Totally dissagree

Why cant I subscribe to the Dave and his officers are incompetent thought process? Billy really does not have much to do with this does he? It's Dave and his officers and the PEC you need to direct your anger to.

If you have issues with CWU work in the political arena then you can well and truly direct your anger towards Billy.

I dont know anyone with Six thousand drops

The closest to that is a urban bike round with a figure in the 600's (thats the 100% figure not the 80% figure on which DTD are claimed) that does not have IPS and where the duty holder does not earn shift allowance. So thats 27.54 a week instead of DTD and paid 52 weeks a year. And yes i do realise that someone getting the 12.37 may well see figures on payslip go down.

Woooooooooooshhhhhhhhh!

[andy2007]

Explaining and justfying are two different things, lets not get muddled up shall we?

Big Daz you don't seem to have understood one basic fact.
Either you subscribe to the "Dave and Billy are corrupt. Gibson's an idiot. It's all about the gravy train" train of thought or you are an apologist for the deal.
Either you know someone with 6000 drops who will be losing about 10 million squids/year when we are doing 1000 D2D every day or you are out of touch with the membership.
The sad thing is the money issue is the least of our worries in this deal.

There are actually 3 options, not 2.
1) It's all about corruption and the gravy train.
2) Apologist for the deal.
3) This was all caused by the usual secrecy clauses, and they went off at a tangent, from what we actually need and want. And the only way to avoid things getting worse with every deal, is to KEEP THE RANK AND FILE IN THE LOOP! So they can represent us properly, instead of going for what they THINK we need/want.

Personally: I think it's number 3.

[dvbuk55]

Explaining and justfying are two different things, lets not get muddled up shall we?

Big Daz you don't seem to have understood one basic fact.
Either you subscribe to the "Dave and Billy are corrupt. Gibson's an idiot. It's all about the gravy train" train of thought or you are an apologist for the deal.
Either you know someone with 6000 drops who will be losing about 10 million squids/year when we are doing 1000 D2D every day or you are out of touch with the membership.
The sad thing is the money issue is the least of our worries in this deal.

There are actually 3 options, not 2.
1) It's all about corruption and the gravy train.
2) Apologist for the deal.
3) This was all caused by the usual secrecy clauses, and they went off at a tangent, from what we actually need and want. And the only way to avoid things getting worse with every deal, is to KEEP THE RANK AND FILE IN THE LOOP! So they can represent us properly, instead of going for what they THINK we need/want.

Personally: I think it's number 3.

Well there is a 4th:

Keep the rank and file OUT of the loop, so that they can represent themselves to the best of their ability.

[andy2007]

That would be difficult logistically. But if there's a way to pull it off, then I'm all for it!

Sadly. Although it's possible to keep us in the loop, and give us the opportunity to provide regular feedback to the negotiators. I still think we need a fairly small group to be there in person, to actually negotiate. We just need to be given the neccessary information, and the opportunity to provide useful feedback regularly throughout the process. So they can get what we actually want and need. Rather than what they THINK we might want or need.

[dvbuk55]

That would be difficult logistically. But if there's a way to pull it off, then I'm all for it!

Sadly. Although it's possible to keep us in the loop, and give us the opportunity to provide regular feedback to the negotiators. I still think we need a fairly small group to be there in person, to actually negotiate. We just need to be given the neccessary information, and the opportunity to provide useful feedback regularly throughout the process. So they can get what we actually want and need. Rather than what they THINK we might want or need.

Well you have to ask yourself this question - "Do they remotely care what we want and need" - personally I believe it has become the Wimbledon Self Preservation Society.

vlcsnap-2009-11-08-19h04m13s11.png

Those are the reasons we went on strike - does this agreement fulfil those ambitions?

[k979aaa]

That would be difficult logistically. But if there's a way to pull it off, then I'm all for it!

Sadly. Although it's possible to keep us in the loop, and give us the opportunity to provide regular feedback to the negotiators. I still think we need a fairly small group to be there in person, to actually negotiate. We just need to be given the neccessary information, and the opportunity to provide useful feedback regularly throughout the process. So they can get what we actually want and need. Rather than what they THINK we might want or need.

Well you have to ask yourself this question - "Do they remotely care what we want and need" - personally I believe it has become the Wimbledon Self Preservation Society.

vlcsnap-2009-11-08-19h04m13s11.png

Those are the reasons we went on strike - does this agreement fulfil those ambitions?

NONE OF THE ABOVE FOR ME!.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

1. Not if your in an MC. I can't see RM under the leaner and more efficient ethos that is prevalent at the moment, employing more people than it needs in either deliveries locally, or at a distant MC. In the real world pressure will be applied to cut the numbers transferring. The transferring deal looks good on paper but what happens after the qualifying time runs out, its like they are just giving you extra time to find another job. Just my opinion of course.

2. Benefit from change - sorry not in deliveries (only my opinion of course). Most of the bulk payments we were going to get anyway under CS, and the pay rise does not cover loss of D2D payments and ESA even over the whole year. On a weekly basis they pay cut is quite substantial. Sorry I don't think I am benefiting from change, or where I am the benefits are not enough or are outweighed by the changes.

3. Well perhaps in this one that they have kept that is if the spirit of the agreement is kept. Or perhaps they mean the working environment will be better because we will be out on the ground, away from the managers, for longer and longer.

[clashcityrocker]

1. Possibly if you work in a D.O.
2.Possibly. It is a pretty ambiguous statement. Take it any way you please.(Weight off the shoulder)
3. Possibly if the spirit of the agreement is adhered to.