4 star hotel for union officials paid for by us

[realmichael]

i was there a couple of years ago, it was more like borstal than 4 star !!!

good grub though

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I wouldn't describe it as 4 star

lodge 2.jpg

lodge 3.jpg

lodge 1.jpg

lodge 4.jpg

[MinisterofCucumber]

BUT, all this is not why you started this thread is it. You tried to make out Alvescot is some lavish holiday camp with junkets flowing, all paid for by CWU members.

Now you answer my question for the 3rd time, where would you have your unit reps stay ?

If Alvescot can be used effectively, then of course reps may need to stay over night. You are making it sound like one week residential courses are the only way to train CWU reps. You have obviously been on the 'Twisting someone's words to suit your own argument' course. What I am questioning is the effectiveness of rep training in general and whether Alvescot justifies the money that has been spent on it in particular.

Looking at the course schedule for 2010, I can see that there is a grand total of two weeks devoted to 'postal agreements and procedures':

http://www.cwueducation.org/sitepages.a ... entID=2209" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Big Daz]

MoC


The CWU is not the UCW/UPW anymore therefore you will not see large amounts of time devoted purley to postal agreements and procedures at Alvecsot. If we were still UCW/UPW then we wouldnt even have the lodge.

That course is also delivered out in the field, not just at the lodge.


What the lodge does do is run courses that are suitable for reps from any buisness the CWU organises in.


JANUARY
4 – 8 TUC TUTORS BRIEFING
11 – 15 ADVANCED SKILLS PART 3
18 – 22 UNION SKILLS III
25 – 29 OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH & SAFETY (WEEK 3)
FEBRUARY
1 – 5 EMPLOYMENT LAW (WEEK 3) / UNION SKILLS I
8 – 12 HEALTH & SAFETY STAGE I
15 – 19 UNION SKILLS I
22 – 26 ADVANCED SKILLS PART 1
MARCH
1 – 5 UNION SKILLS FOR UNION LEARNING REPS
8 – 12 OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH & SAFETY (WEEK 4)
15 – 19 EMPLOYMENT LAW (WEEK 4) / UNION SKILLS I
22 – 26 ADVANCED SKILLS PART 2
29 – 31 BRANCH SECRETARIES TRAINING (Easter - Good Friday)
APRIL
6 – 8 ORGANISING AMBASSADORS STAGE I (Easter – Bank Holiday Monday)
12 – 16 UNION SKILLS II
19 – 23 HEALTH & SAFETY STAGE II
26 – 30 ADVANCED SKILLS PART 3
MAY
5 – 7 FINANCIAL SECRETARIES/TREASURERS TRAINING (Bank Holiday Monday)
10 – 14 UNION LEARNING REPS STAGE I / EQUAL RIGHTS PART 1
17 – 21 UNION SKILLS III
24 – 28 ANNUAL CONFERENCE / POSTAL AGREEMENTS & PROCEDURES
JUNE
1 – 3 3 DAY CHAIRING MEETINGS (Bank Holiday Monday)
7 – 11 DISABILITY CHAMPIONS
14 – 18 TBC
21 – 25 UNION SKILLS I
28 – 2 HEALTH & SAFETY STAGE III
JULY
5 – 9 ENVIRONMENTAL REPS
12 – 16 UNION SKILLS I
19 – 23 OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH
26 – 30 UNION SKILLS II
AUGUST
2 – 6 UNION SKILLS I
9 – 13 POSTAL AGREEMENTS & PROCEDURES
16 – 20 HEALTH & SAFETY STAGE I
23 – 27 UNION SKILLS II
SEPTEMBER
1 – 3 BRANCH SECRETARIES TRAINING (Bank Holiday Monday)
6 – 10 UNION SKILLS FOR UNION LEARNING REPS
13 – 17 POSTAL COURSE (TBC)
20 – 24 HEALTH & SAFETY STAGE II
27 – 1 UNION SKILLS III
OCTOBER
4 – 8 TUC DIPLOMA IN CONTEMPORARY TRADE UNIONISM (WEEK 1) / EMPLOYMENT LAW (WEEK 1)
11 – 15 TBC
18 – 22 UNION SKILLS II
25 – 29 HEALTH & SAFETY STAGE III
NOVEMBER
1 – 5 TBC
8 – 12 UNION LEARNING REPS STAGE II / EQUAL RIGHTS PART 2
15 – 19 TUC DIPLOMA IN CONTEMPORARY TRADE UNIONISM (WEEK 2) / EMPLOYMENT LAW (WEEK 2)
22 – 26 HEALTH & SAFETY STAGE I
29 – 3 UNION SKILLS I
DECEMBER
6 – 10 TBC
13 – 17 TBC
20 – 24 CLOSED
27 – 31 CLOSED

[Big Daz]

NORTH WEST REGIONAL COURSES

Branches are asked to submit application forms for the following courses being held in the North West Region.

• Postal Agreements & Procedures: 22nd – 26th March – Preston
• Union Skills 1: 22nd – 26th March – Liverpool
• One Day Equality & Diversity: 24th March – Manchester
• Union Skills I: 12th - 16th April – Manchester
• Postal Agreements & Procedures: 19th – 23rd April – Liverpool
• One Day Equality & Diversity: 13th April – Preston
• One Day Equality & Diversity: 20th April – Stockport
• Postal Agreements & Procedures: 26th – 30th April – Manchester
• Postal Agreements & Procedures: 10th – 14th May – Stockport
• One Day Equality & Diversity: 11th May – Liverpool

[MinisterofCucumber]

Big Daz,

My branch rarely sends members on courses siting cost as the reason.

A direct consequence of this was that my rep allowed management to make duty revisions without pay protection on a number of occasions. He also allowed management to pay members substitution allowance instead of being temporarily promoted. If I had not stumbled across the relevant agreements on the intranet, staff at my location would have lost that money. The union were no help at all, I had to write to MPs to get my workmates' money back for them.

I have not seen any evidence of changes being made to improve the training given to reps. All HQ did was set one of their top enforcers on me and attempt to get me to a 'kangaroo court'. I don't believe that the CWU really wants its members to be informed of policies. They prefer members to be kept in the dark and would rather they break rules and face disciplinary action so that reps are seen as being indispensible.

I appreciate that your branch is probably more effective than mine. I belong to a very political branch that has produced two Labour councillors that I know of. However, we all pay over £150 a year to the union and we expect them to improve our pay and conditions, not make them worse. Your loyalty does you credit but you must be getting some sort of feeling about what the CWU has become. Look at the '2010 and Beyond' proposed agreement.

I expect Trish Lavelle to write to every CWU member in Royal Mail Group outlining the failures that occured at East London Cash Centre in respect to MtSF and the Substitution policy and to give detailed instructions of how members can access policies on the intranet.

[Big Daz]

Dont forget branch and HW websites as well as the intranet.

[Funked!]

BUT, all this is not why you started this thread is it. You tried to make out Alvescot is some lavish holiday camp with junkets flowing, all paid for by CWU members.

Now you answer my question for the 3rd time, where would you have your unit reps stay ?

If Alvescot can be used effectively, then of course reps may need to stay over night. You are making it sound like one week residential courses are the only way to train CWU reps. You have obviously been on the 'Twisting someone's words to suit your own argument' course. What I am questioning is the effectiveness of rep training in general and whether Alvescot justifies the money that has been spent on it in particular.



Looking at the course schedule for 2010, I can see that there is a grand total of two weeks devoted to 'postal agreements and procedures':

http://www.cwueducation.org/sitepages.a ... entID=2209" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I ain't making out one week residential courses are the only way to train reps, that would be nonsense - did you miss my post where i agreed with you regarding online courses. Yes more time should be available for 'postal agreements & procedures courses.
Your unsubtle stab at humour regarding what courses i've done speaks volumes about you. Your the one trying to twist members opinions of Alvescot to suit your spin.
As for effectiveness of rep training, sounds like you have a problem with your reps. I said in a previous post there are reps & there are reps. It's all very easy shouting from the sidelines, become a rep, get involved, change things, but you won't do that will you.

[MinisterofCucumber]

If someone has a grievance against the union, the solution is not to advise the injured party to become a rep. Should the 40 or so members that also lost money become reps too?

If I left the country for a few years and paid a garage to look after my car which got damaged whilst I was away, would you advise me to get a job within that garage as a solution?

You are putting all the blame on my rep, someone who is not paid for the work he does but tries his best. This reveals your character. It is clear from my previous post that I think the CWU's Head Of Education and Training is ultimately responsible for the lack of training provided to reps. She is paid a lot of money by us and should be accountable. There is not one member of East London Cash Centre who has received any sort of written explanation, let alone an apology, from the union of how they were let down so badly.

[Funked!]

If someone has a grievance against the union, the solution is not to advise the injured party to become a rep. Should the 40 or so members that also lost money become reps too?

If I left the country for a few years and paid a garage to look after my car which got damaged whilst I was away, would you advise me to get a job within that garage as a solution?

You are putting all the blame on my rep, someone who is not paid for the work he does but tries his best. This reveals your character. It is clear from my previous post that I think the CWU's Head Of Education and Training is ultimately responsible for the lack of training provided to reps. She is paid a lot of money by us and should be accountable. There is not one member of East London Cash Centre who has received any sort of written explanation, let alone an apology, from the union of how they were let down so badly.

There you go again going on about two separate issues.
You come out with two crass examples to try to justify yourself. I am a unit rep not paid for the work i do.
How am i putting the blame on reps, your the one bleating about QUOTE : effectiveness of reps training,what is going on in your head ?
Stick to the facts of the thread you started, & have been proven very wrong by numerous posters!
If you've have a problem with the Head of Education take it up with her.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Funked,

I am not going on about two seperate issues, I am answering your questions. You have suggested that that I should solve the problem by becoming a rep because the problem lies with the quality of our rep:

"As for effectiveness of rep training, sounds like you have a problem with your reps. I said in a previous post there are reps & there are reps. It's all very easy shouting from the sidelines, become a rep, get involved, change things, but you won't do that will you."

I am arguing that the problem lies with the lack of support our rep is getting from the union. He is a volunteer and can only do his best. If this is how the CWU bigwigs treat their volunteers, are you surprised I don't want to become one?

Alvescot is a symbol of what is wrong with the CWU. A lot of members' money is being spent on things that have little benefit for ordinary members.

"If you've have a problem with the Head of Education take it up with her."

I am taking it up here, in public, because when it was taken up in private the issue was not resolved. The members deserve to see how the union reacts when it has been shown to have failed.

[pcb]

Have to take issue with Alverscot being a waste of time. Your rep should be able to attend for courses relevent to his/her job. The rep is ultimately backed up by you the members. Thats how it works in my office. The union provides opportunity for Reps to network, be educated in procedures and gain confidence.
How do you think managers are trained? on the floor! No they go on courses and learn the basics and that is what a union should do.

[MinisterofCucumber]

I am proud to admit that I have never been on a union course yet I have succeeded in cases where a Territorial Counters rep has failed.

This is because I use the grievance procedure and, not being tied to the IR framework, I am able to write to whoever I want to.

I am not aware of any courses at Alvescot that help improve reps' comprehension skills for understanding agreements or that help reps to express themselves effectively in writing. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I am proud to admit that I have never been on a union course yet I have succeeded in cases where a Territorial Counters rep has failed.

This is because I use the grievance procedure and, not being tied to the IR framework, I am able to write to whoever I want to.

I am not aware of any courses at Alvescot that help improve reps' comprehension skills for understanding agreements or that help reps to express themselves effectively in writing. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Read through Big Daz's post on this page - Postal Agreements & Procedures Courses (4 in one post) and loads in other post. Reps, expressing themselves, well I don;t know for sure but Union Skills Courses 1,2,3 would cover it in some way I would have though, and certainly the course entitled "ORGANISING AMBASSADORS STAGE I " should help.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Any chance of the 'no' voters using Alvescot for a weekender to celebrate the throwing out of the insulting '2010 and Beyond' proposal?