What happens If its a No Result

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk let's examine your solutions

1 pay the full supplement to part timers ! Well there is just 55 million in the pot from door to door claimed in 2008 and the money availabe from early shift payments 1 & 2 . If you now cut that money differently now to equalise payments to part timers then you reduce the sum to £18. However you have to remember that not many part timers obtain early shift payments . Plus part timers will get an increase in money over and above full timers as a result of the shorter working week and them increasing their hourly rate. In addition we have Saturday only part timers who would get the same supplement as someone who worked 39 hours or 30 hours or 20 hours is that fair. Bearing in mind that this agreement wil allow offices to increase part timers hours whete they cannot handle door to door into workload

2. Colleague share paid in full to part timers. Again this is not possible the union tried to use colleague share money in a way which increased basic pay. However due to the fact that their are legal issues with the fact that employees recieved a share certificate this proved imposible. If you now pay part timers the full colleague share money you reduce the pot promised and royal mail will leave themselves open to claims from previous colleague share money.

3. The finance deal with royal mail. This is a red herring . Have a look at the ir review agreement and it includes central billing arrangements. The commitment is too review this process nothing more nothing less.

[dvbuk55]

Dingo who suggested that people wouldn't be prepared to accept a smaller fairer share £20.60 to £18 is not such a big difference - they have brought this to the membership sight unseen and it is an abysmal display of discrimination to part time members. There could also be a smaller colleague share equally split and the £200 payment for agreeing to the revision is also pro rata.

Is this what the union has come to - Unity is Winners and Losers and negotiation a managerial partnership? There is to be a reformation of the union to assist management?

This is not an organisation that has any credibility left in representing the membership.

This deal could be amended to incorporate the above changes and would make it more acceptable, in terms of equality though not as an answer to the ills that beset Royal Mail - DSA and the Pension Fund - neither of these problems have been addressed and they need to be as a matter of urgency.

[headscrewedon]

we have Saturday only part timers who would get the same supplement as someone who worked 39 hours or 30 hours or 20 hours is that fair

you can't argue that an equal payment would be fair in that scenario, dvbuk, can you ?

I can't

[fishtank]

we have Saturday only part timers who would get the same supplement as someone who worked 39 hours or 30 hours or 20 hours is that fair

you can't argue that an equal payment would be fair in that scenario, dvbuk, can you ?

I can't

About as fair as say,someone in the callers office getting a delivery supplement when.........they don't deliver.

[dvbuk55]

we have Saturday only part timers who would get the same supplement as someone who worked 39 hours or 30 hours or 20 hours is that fair

you can't argue that an equal payment would be fair in that scenario, dvbuk, can you ?

I can't

About as fair as say,someone in the callers office getting a delivery supplement when.........they don't deliver.

We all have valid points - so that should really tell us a tale - the non deliverer, the 1 hour contract, the 30.5 hours contract - had the payment been incorporated into basic pay then there wouldn't have been an argument, but as it stands people are expected to work harder for less and some do nothing for more and that is for at least three years - who on earth came up with such a crazy idea and more to the point who agreed to it and then expected us to agree it.

[belle smith]

In addition does one think that Royal Mail will stand still , as normal they will target the offices which they think are weaker and make in roads on them , some will probably ever take the offier which is on the table. Whilst those of us who always hold the line with fight for what we believe is right.

Anyone who believes anything different then why did Royal Mail impose over 400 revisons last year , close a number of mail centres , impose part timers , longer delivery spans , impose car derived vans , impose unagreed standards.

dingo, i think thats what they will do with the agreement. The fact is that a number of the things listed there are part of the agreement. Mail centre clousures, longer delivery spans, car derived vans.
We don't know what the performance standards are yet.
I also belive that their task in doing all of this is made a whole lot easier with this deal.

Last years strike was about stopping them and reaching an agreement which introduce change by agreement , with safeguards and a better reward package that was what every member was balloted on. If the deal is not good enough then we will have to fight for a better deal.

I don't belive, first and foremost that the safegaurds are strong enough, and i'm less than happy with the reward package. I don't see what we've gained, i don't desparately want to go back out on strike. but in a straight choice between striking again and signing up to this deal then i would pick striking! It's not even a tough choice for me!

[axeman]

dingo ...i said nothing about getting rid of dsa ...i'd rather we got rid of hayes & ward and the rest of the pec members who peddled this abortion you call a deal yes you might like it but many out there are against it and if told the truth i guess many more would be going to vote 'no' . As i see it the reason for all this touring is you know full well it does not meet the expectations of the members and your avoidence of key questions that have been tabled is self evident (posters on rmchat) if your clearly not willing to tell the truth then please say so without the threat of ''it's the best we could do'' theres no plan 'b' etc..

[tomangoe]

Dingo , if they can put all the D2D money and early shift money into a pot and share it out ,why can't they put all the other "grandfather rights" payments into the pot aswell and share that out equally ? I'm talking about ex PHG ,driving allowances etc. Also ,on D2D why lift the cap all in one go ? Why not a gradual increase say to 4 and see how it works , then maybe to 5 then 6.As I see it the areas that don't get D2D now because of geographical location not because of quality of service , still won't get anymore , while those of us in more populated or afluent areas will be bombarded.

[Kpostbun]

Anyone who believes anything different then why did Royal Mail impose over 400 revisons last year , close a number of mail centres , impose part timers , longer delivery spans , impose car derived vans , impose unagreed standards.

One reason;
Offices like ours voted to strike in2007 and last year and both times the union let us down by saying hold on for the national ballot. This dragged on months and lots of part timers employed and duties(more importantly Ips) lost. The union is making a habit of letting us down

[Big Daz]

The agreement says "growth ambitions for door to door will be managed responsibly"

[dvbuk55]

The agreement says "growth ambitions for door to door will be managed responsibly"

That is a really good sound bite, "growth ambitions will be managed responsibly" - wtf does it mean? There won't be more than 20 lots a day, no more than 2 lots a day, no more that 8 lots a week, no more than 2 day specifics on any given day? We aren't the ones in charge of being responsible and there is obviously scope for a larger market but we haven't been given a specific slice of the pie.

This is a sell out no more no less.

[axeman]

do you really think royal fail does responsible ..daz i'm sure your chant is in the words of the monkeys ......i'm a beliver

[pmn123]

Ballot papers are due to be despatched on the 6th April coincidently this may well be the same day as Gordon Brown will announce an election, in all probability any no result discussions would be affected by the fact that we may or may not have new owners eg Cameron, Osborne, Clarke & Co. The outcome of the election will no doubt have effect on any discussions with the Royal Mail board they need to be sanctioned by there owners after all.
Mandleson is already reneging on his commitment to discuss the pension (surprise , surprise ) citing the fact the agreement may not be agreed by the membership as he is aware that there is opposition to the agreement, this has apparently given him the opportunity to fudge on the issue surrounding our £10 billon pension deficit until after the election again the pension issue will be influenced by whoever are owners are.
To believe that a no vote would not place the union as a political target for those in the media, business and government who ever it may be, would smack very much of naivety.
We are not in a similar position or situation as to when we the rejected the way forward the first time , we need to be careful what we wish for as the world has indeed changed whether we like it not and the sands of time are upon us in as afar as reaching an agreement in the current economic and political conditions. Will the political landscape be much improved for us after the general election? Will the business be so keen to reach agreement ? Will there be an appetite amongst the members, activists and top table for further possible industrial action to act as leverage to secure improvements in the deal? If the outcome of the ballot is a no vote these are just some of the questions and difficulties we will face.

[Big Daz]

Mandleson is already reneging on his commitment to discuss the pension (surprise , surprise ) citing the fact the agreement may not be agreed by the membership as he is aware that there is opposition to the agreement, this has apparently given him the opportunity to fudge on the issue surrounding our £10 billon pension deficit until after the election again the pension issue will be influenced by whoever are owners are.

[MinisterofCucumber]

pmn123 wrote:

"Mandleson is already reneging on his commitment to discuss the pension..."

Translated:

'Mandelson is not keeping his promise to talk about the pension.'

Even if he kept his promise, he has not made a commitment to do anything other than talk. Sounds like our great leaders have let the slippery one off the hook.

This is not very impressive.