What happens If its a No Result

[brothermagrew]

What is abundently clear to me is from now and until such times that we receive our individual ballot papers we are going to get inundated with our DOMs giving us the Royal Mail line at weekly WTLL Sessions/Team Briefings in the hope that they can persuade us that it is a good deal. IMHO the more they force their unwanted opinion on us the more determined I will be to vote accordingly.

[andy2007]

Its a matter of what we the rank and file want to happen if further talks following a no vote dont produce any improvements.

Plan C is deciding what to do if further talks (plan B) following a no vote dont produce any improvements.

IA ballot or take whats on offer and make the best out of the situation?

Which option would you choose to be plan C?

That would depend entirely on the circumstances. If they continue to try to force things through via EA, or offer us a worse deal. Then we would probably end up being balloted for Strike Action. If not. Then we could continue down the diplomatic route. That's what ACAS is for, isn't it?

[Martin Walsh]

If it is a no vote after 4 months of negotation including Royal Mail allowingthe union for the first time open access to the financial postion of Royal Mail , do you really think Royal Mail are going to put on hold for another couple of months their transformation plans.

If the deal is rejected , I would expect Royal Mail to do what they normally do and did under SDD and go locally with their plans and offer the lump sums etc. With regards to Door to Door then I am not sure what their call will be.

But even if the deal was rejected then the union would have to find out from the members on what basis. Remember the delivery supplement includes no new money and if the existing new money is re allocated to be give the same amount on the supplement to part timers then the £20.60 will become £18 for everyone. Full timers then may not be pleased as part timers would get an additional increase with the shorter working week. If the arguement is that some do not do door to door now and should not recieve the monies then that will cause problems as this deal gets them an increase.

Look if its a no vote , then the union will have to review the situration but anyone who believes that Royal Mail are simply going to stump up more money and put on hold their plans then really have no idea of the financial postion of Royal Mail.

So tell me if some are supporting further strike action what are you looking for from any resolution ??

[onetwothree]

I Think Dingo Makes a fair point that RM will just push on with the plans the have if its a No Vote but thats not a reason to give a yes vote if you are losing Money from your weekly pay packet the thing with the D2D is that no one seems to realize is that at the moment its an extra payment which is depent on companies wanting RM to deliver leaflets so at the moment if RM lost the contracts for Delivering D2D all currently reciving extra for delivering D2D would get nothing, Except under this new deal if RM Lost D2d contracts we'd still get the payment, so I think we all Have to hope that if this deal Goes through the current mangement at RM make there usual good Job of Giving away all the contracts to TNT like they normally do then we will get the money for nothing.

[andy2007]

IMHO, most of the problems with this deal, are caused by the fact that we weren't aware of what was going on, until it was too late to provide feedback. Now you've just said yourself, that if we get a no vote, the negotiators will have to find out why. That will mean that they'll be able to go back to the table, knowing what the rank and file actually want out of this.

Now I know that there won't be any more money overall. I doubt that there's many people who would expect it. But it could be redistributed, so that those who are currently loosing money, could be subsidised by those who're gaining, for example. Although personally. I'm far more concerned with our terms and conditions, than money. After all: This was never meant to be about money in the first place!

I'm quite sure that there's something we could give, in exchange for better T&Cs. The lump sums for example?
Now obviously, I'm giving my personal opinion. Others might disagree. Particularly considering the number of times I've heard people mythering about how fast they could get their lump sums, if it's a yes vote. But unless the rank and file are consulted, how can the negotiators possibly know how to best represent us?

The sooner we get rid of these ludicrous secrecy clauses, and start giving the rank and file the opportunity to give feedback at an early stage. The better!

[bogstandard]

this was touted as the DEAL OF A GENERATION, whether it is remains to be seen.

although i do recall roger poole saying nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Can i then assume that now negotiations are over everything is agreed and my vote as to whether or not i agree to whats on offer counts for nought.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Dingo,

What special access did you get to RM's financial position?

Anyone can get this:

http://www.royalmailgroup.com/portal/rm ... 8#44400263" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why are we making such big changes when the Chief Executive has had to walk because the Government don't have confidence in him. Mandelson accepted the Hooper report in all its aspects including the recommendation that private sector management should be brought in because the current management team were not up to the job. It is stupid to commit to the strategy of increasing junkmail before a new Chief Executive has been found and allowed to develop their own strategy.

This agreement is Crozier's way of leaving a turd on the floor before he jumps ship. It is his trademark.

[andy2007]

this was touted as the DEAL OF A GENERATION, whether it is remains to be seen.

although i do recall roger poole saying nothing is agreed until everything is agreed.
Can i then assume that now negotiations are over everything is agreed and my vote as to whether or not i agree to whats on offer counts for nought.

I think they just missed a word out. I'm sure it should read:
Worst deal of a generation

[pudef]

A lot of you guys seem to be forgetting not only do we work for the royal mail we are also customers
each and everyone of you so when some of you talk about not getting the support of the general public
why don't you try asking the customers I did and I can assure you what they think of royal mail management
and our unions so called leaders just isn't printable and not one ( not one of them said they didn't mind not getting there mail on a Saturday reason being you cant do anything with it until Monday anyway. There offering us a bribe to vote yes
just like the government they will give it to you with one hand and you can be sure they will take it back with the
other hand one way or the other . I wouldn't sell my sole not for any amount of money I want royal mail to stay
royal mail and if you sell your sole now it wont stay royal mail for long.

[dvbuk55]

A lot of you guys seem to be forgetting not only do we work for the royal mail we are also customers
each and everyone of you so when some of you talk about not getting the support of the general public
why don't you try asking the customers I did and I can assure you what they think of royal mail management
and our unions so called leaders just isn't printable and not one ( not one of them said they didn't mind not getting there mail on a Saturday reason being you cant do anything with it until Monday anyway. There offering us a bribe to vote yes
just like the government they will give it to you with one hand and you can be sure they will take it back with the
other hand one way or the other . I wouldn't sell my sole not for any amount of money I want royal mail to stay
royal mail and if you sell your sole now it wont stay royal mail for long.

I prefer cod anyway

[mucker]

If it is a no vote after 4 months of negotation including Royal Mail allowingthe union for the first time open access to the financial postion of Royal Mail , do you really think Royal Mail are going to put on hold for another couple of months their transformation plans.

If the deal is rejected , I would expect Royal Mail to do what they normally do and did under SDD and go locally with their plans and offer the lump sums etc. With regards to Door to Door then I am not sure what their call will be.

But even if the deal was rejected then the union would have to find out from the members on what basis. Remember the delivery supplement includes no new money and if the existing new money is re allocated to be give the same amount on the supplement to part timers then the £20.60 will become £18 for everyone. Full timers then may not be pleased as part timers would get an additional increase with the shorter working week. If the arguement is that some do not do door to door now and should not recieve the monies then that will cause problems as this deal gets them an increase.

Look if its a no vote , then the union will have to review the situration but anyone who believes that Royal Mail are simply going to stump up more money and put on hold their plans then really have no idea of the financial postion of Royal Mail.

So tell me if some are supporting further strike action what are you looking for from any resolution ??

Scaremongering

[pudef]

Nice one dvbuk55 but mark my words if its a yes vote . If I were you I would eat as much cod as you can now
because you wont be able to afford it if royal mail and the union get there way . That's after the bribes all gone
off course

[Martin Walsh]

Nothing to do with scaremongering. Do you really think that Royal Mail after 4 months of negotating and putting change on hold are going to say if the deal is rejected oh we will put on hold for another few months and let there whole business strategy go west.

I have no problems if the members decide to vote no that is their right. However lets not con people , if they vote no then they better be ready to back it up with strike action.

Andy I disagree you can hardly say to someone here is £20.60 and because you want to now give more money to others who may be losing that the new deal is now worth less than £20.60. They will then reject the agreement.

Lets get one thing straight , if people dont think the reward part of the package is right then they have to be prepared to fight for a bigger pot of money. There will be no more negotating as after 4 months negotations have reached a point where Royal mail have made their final offer.

In addition does one think that Royal Mail will stand still , as normal they will target the offices which they think are weaker and make in roads on them , some will probably ever take the offier which is on the table. Whilst those of us who always hold the line with fight for what we believe is right.

Anyone who believes anything different then why did Royal Mail impose over 400 revisons last year , close a number of mail centres , impose part timers , longer delivery spans , impose car derived vans , impose unagreed standards.

Last years strike was about stopping them and reaching an agreement which introduce change by agreement , with safeguards and a better reward package that was what every member was balloted on. If the deal is not good enough then we will have to fight for a better deal.

[fishtank]

I have no problems if the members decide to vote no that is their right. However lets not con people , if they vote no then they better be ready to back it up with strike action.

Yes dingo let's not con people with talk of fresh strikes for fresh strikes would require a fresh ballot and that would end in an embarrassing rejection.

Whilst those of us who always hold the line with fight for what we believe is right.

Do you believe this deal is right? If so exactly what line would you be holding?

Anyone who believes anything different then why did Royal Mail impose over 400 revisons last year , close a number of mail centres , impose part timers , longer delivery spans , impose car derived vans , impose unagreed standards.

And this agreement..........closes a larger number of mail centres,increases the part-time ratio,longer delivery spans,car derived vans and as yet unseen standards. .....oh yes and a pay cut for many.

[Big Daz]

Dingo,

What special access did you get to RM's financial position?

Anyone can get this:

http://www.royalmailgroup.com/portal/rm ... 8#44400263" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why are we making such big changes when the Chief Executive has had to walk because the Government don't have confidence in him. Mandelson accepted the Hooper report in all its aspects including the recommendation that private sector management should be brought in because the current management team were not up to the job. It is stupid to commit to the strategy of increasing junkmail before a new Chief Executive has been found and allowed to develop their own strategy.

This agreement is Crozier's way of leaving a turd on the floor before he jumps ship. It is his trademark.

I like your point about a new CEO, I suspect there is a plan to keep a new CEO out of deciding the future and simply expect the new CEO to make the plan work.