London`s Position

[belle smith]

i'm more intrested in national problems too......but he is a London rep and this thread is about London.

[POSTMAN]

I would think belle that if there are still outstanding issues after 4 months then any resolution within the next few days is simply a face saving exercise.

Interestingly,and i can't go too much into detail for obvious reasons,but things are now moving fast,a lot of the 4 day week issues could be resolved very soon,some already have.

But,RM have taken the piss with the interim agreement,and only because of the national agreement threat have they moved on it.
London as well have not pushed hard enough with it either,is a lot of reps views as well.

[belle smith]

So.....What is London's position re the agreement?.......in simple terms.

I could be wrong but, it sounds to me like dingo and the boys really are doing the work.
It if they can't get their outstanding issues concerning EA resolved under the interim agreement with ACAS involvment, it will be a no.

If they can get them resolved then they will trust ACAS to police the new agreement and it will be a yes.

I would think belle that if there are still outstanding issues after 4 months then any resolution within the next few days is simply a face saving exercise.
Just my opinion but if you have to hold a gun to their heads the issue of trust really doesn't come in to it.
And as i have said to dingo before What happens when we no longer have that gun?

Don't disagree with you fishtank, i don't trust them either.

[Martin Walsh]

I would think belle that if there are still outstanding issues after 4 months then any resolution within the next few days is simply a face saving exercise.

Interestingly,and i can't go too much into detail for obvious reasons,but things are now moving fast,a lot of the 4 day week issues could be resolved very soon,some already have.

But,RM have taken the piss with the interim agreement,and only because of the national agreement threat have they moved on it.
London as well have not pushed hard enough with it either,is a lot of reps views as well.

for once postman I disagree with your last sentence. Its very easy for reps to have those views but they were at all the meetings and did not put up any alternatives to move the issues on either.

Look you have to remember that last year management declared war on London. In every press statement and in every tv interview they attacked London. Last years dispute was without doubt the most bitterest we have ever had.

Everyone from Crozier , Higson and Tolhurst down were determind to destroy the union in London. Even when the interim agreement was introduced and even at times now when we are meeting senior managers with acas in the room you can feel the hatred. Tensions have run high and there is no trust in each other.

We have spent hundreds of hours in the room attempting to make progress with ACAS and things have been painfully slow. However I dont think there was any alternative other then attempting to use everything we can to make sure we get the right solutions.

To show what we have been up against you only have to look at Wimbledon delivery office where they imposed a geo route revision , imposed cdvs and removed their 4 day week , they have spent 2000 hours per week in casuals , work is rolled. The CDV vans only deliver one walk and other walk is done by a cusual. The office is a complete mess and has been since August and is costing them a fortune but we couldt reach an agreement until last week because very senior managers were refusing to move on the issue of 4 day weeks.

Last Thursday after a very tense and faught meeting on Wednesday we managed to reach an agreement on Wimbledon and an agreement on Southwark and managment moved their postion on some other units. But we still have not resolved some critical issues and these need to be resolved before Friday.

The pressure is on Royal Mail as the agreement cannot go out to ballot until the interim agreement issues not just in London have been resolved.

[dvbuk55]

I thought the date for the ballot had been set - you're surely not suggesting that because London have not settled their issues the rest of us have to wait until your problems are solved - if you think they are not doing anything to resolve the interim issues - pull out now, because there is only heartache ahead for you dingo - trust and honouring agreements - yeah right. You'll be out for another 20 days before you know it.

[POSTMAN]

I would think belle that if there are still outstanding issues after 4 months then any resolution within the next few days is simply a face saving exercise.

Interestingly,and i can't go too much into detail for obvious reasons,but things are now moving fast,a lot of the 4 day week issues could be resolved very soon,some already have.

But,RM have taken the piss with the interim agreement,and only because of the national agreement threat have they moved on it.
London as well have not pushed hard enough with it either,is a lot of reps views as well.

for once postman I disagree with your last sentence. Its very easy for reps to have those views but they were at all the meetings and did not put up any alternatives to move the issues on either.

Look you have to remember that last year management declared war on London. In every press statement and in every tv interview they attacked London. Last years dispute was without doubt the most bitterest we have ever had.

Everyone from Crozier , Higson and Tolhurst down were determind to destroy the union in London. Even when the interim agreement was introduced and even at times now when we are meeting senior managers with acas in the room you can feel the hatred. Tensions have run high and there is no trust in each other.

We have spent hundreds of hours in the room attempting to make progress with ACAS and things have been painfully slow. However I dont think there was any alternative other then attempting to use everything we can to make sure we get the right solutions.

To show what we have been up against you only have to look at Wimbledon delivery office where they imposed a geo route revision , imposed cdvs and removed their 4 day week , they have spent 2000 hours per week in casuals , work is rolled. The CDV vans only deliver one walk and other walk is done by a cusual. The office is a complete mess and has been since August and is costing them a fortune but we couldt reach an agreement until last week because very senior managers were refusing to move on the issue of 4 day weeks.

Last Thursday after a very tense and faught meeting on Wednesday we managed to reach an agreement on Wimbledon and an agreement on Southwark and managment moved their postion on some other units. But we still have not resolved some critical issues and these need to be resolved before Friday.

The pressure is on Royal Mail as the agreement cannot go out to ballot until the interim agreement issues not just in London have been resolved.

I did say 'is a lot of reps views as well.' at least the reps I spoke to and my rep spoke to.
A lot felt we should of carried on the strikes till it got sorted.I felt that too.
My position,i will never trust RM again,and many others wont either.They have made their bed.
Cheers for the info btw.

[Martin Walsh]

I thought the date for the ballot had been set - you're surely not suggesting that because London have not settled their issues the rest of us have to wait until your problems are solved - if you think they are not doing anything to resolve the interim issues - pull out now, because there is only heartache ahead for you dingo - trust and honouring agreements - yeah right. You'll be out for another 20 days before you know it.

Dvbuk the Postal Executive endorsed the agreement but with the carraige of two ammendments. The first on pensions and the second that the ballot will not go out until the managment uphold and adhere to the interim agreement.

Royal Mail have still not done that and thats the reason the ballot timetable has been put back.

[BELIAL]

I get it now ,when they said three year deal ,they meant we get to vote on it in three years time

[k979aaa]

I get it now ,when they said three year deal ,they meant we get to vote on it in three years time

If at all.

[dvbuk55]

I thought the date for the ballot had been set - you're surely not suggesting that because London have not settled their issues the rest of us have to wait until your problems are solved - if you think they are not doing anything to resolve the interim issues - pull out now, because there is only heartache ahead for you dingo - trust and honouring agreements - yeah right. You'll be out for another 20 days before you know it.

Dvbuk the Postal Executive endorsed the agreement but with the carraige of two ammendments. The first on pensions and the second that the ballot will not go out until the managment uphold and adhere to the interim agreement.

Royal Mail have still not done that and thats the reason the ballot timetable has been put back.

Thanks for that Dingo, much appreciated, no one else has bothered to mention it and the CWU I think stated that the ballot would commence on the 29th March and finish on 13th April. If this is the case then why are HQ touring the country touting for a yes vote and quite frankly stating some less than factual facts.

I haven't made any secret of the fact I am against this agreement, if they cannot uphold an agreement made four months ago, what price the new one? There are other options and we should be stepping back and looking at them.

[lovejoy]

It would seem some posters want to know about London`s postion and in fact a couple of posters have been very critical of the reps and indeed London per say.

For the record the London members took 20 days of strike action last year in order for the union to get in the room, unlike a number of posters on here who talk a good fight but when the union called on offices not to agree savings and to ballot for strike action did nothing.

In London we held the line because we dont just talk the talk we actually walk the walk. We were not going to agree geo route revisons , we were not going to agree the unagreed indoor workload tool , we were not going to agree more part time duties at the expense of full time jobs. We were not going to agree the removal of 4 day weeks and 9 day fortnights.

As a result of the London membership holding the national policy we have 98 revisions imposed. Had it not been for London , some offices in Scotland , Plymouth , Bristol , Network and some other brave units. Fact was there was never a desire by some both at Heaquaters and in the field to have a national ballot. It was us who forced that and it was us who got negotations back way before the national ballot.

Since 5th November and the London joint statement we have spent literally hundreds of hours locked in rooms with acas attempting to resolve the executive action.

Last Friday the London Divisional Committee consisting of all Branch`s in London endorsed a policy which will be relayed to our members later this week if we have not made progress.

In terms of supporting Dave Ward blindly , well you simply dont know what your talking about.

Instead of asking what London is doing why dont you put up what your Branch is doing. Its easy saying what you are doing as an indivdual but its much harder trying to get a collective postion.

In London we always attempt to stick together if we can and sometimes there are heated discussions and different points of view. However one thing no one in the union can deny is that London postal workers stand up for this union and terms and conditions.

So it is a cheap shot and out of order to criticise London postal workers for having good terms and conditions as they have fought for them.

Well Dingo our Branch is a no vote - does that mean we are doing the Lambeth walk per se?

As for the Interim Agreement - surely that is now over as the new agreement is on the table - also if it has taken months and still no resolution over your problems then what price their being able to resolve NATIONAL problems btw those are the ones outside London.

Sure there hasn't been a U-turn?

[dvbuk55]

It would seem some posters want to know about London`s postion and in fact a couple of posters have been very critical of the reps and indeed London per say.

For the record the London members took 20 days of strike action last year in order for the union to get in the room, unlike a number of posters on here who talk a good fight but when the union called on offices not to agree savings and to ballot for strike action did nothing.

In London we held the line because we dont just talk the talk we actually walk the walk. We were not going to agree geo route revisons , we were not going to agree the unagreed indoor workload tool , we were not going to agree more part time duties at the expense of full time jobs. We were not going to agree the removal of 4 day weeks and 9 day fortnights.

As a result of the London membership holding the national policy we have 98 revisions imposed. Had it not been for London , some offices in Scotland , Plymouth , Bristol , Network and some other brave units. Fact was there was never a desire by some both at Heaquaters and in the field to have a national ballot. It was us who forced that and it was us who got negotations back way before the national ballot.

Since 5th November and the London joint statement we have spent literally hundreds of hours locked in rooms with acas attempting to resolve the executive action.

Last Friday the London Divisional Committee consisting of all Branch`s in London endorsed a policy which will be relayed to our members later this week if we have not made progress.

In terms of supporting Dave Ward blindly , well you simply dont know what your talking about.

Instead of asking what London is doing why dont you put up what your Branch is doing. Its easy saying what you are doing as an indivdual but its much harder trying to get a collective postion.

In London we always attempt to stick together if we can and sometimes there are heated discussions and different points of view. However one thing no one in the union can deny is that London postal workers stand up for this union and terms and conditions.

So it is a cheap shot and out of order to criticise London postal workers for having good terms and conditions as they have fought for them.

Well Dingo our Branch is a no vote - does that mean we are doing the Lambeth walk per se?

As for the Interim Agreement - surely that is now over as the new agreement is on the table - also if it has taken months and still no resolution over your problems then what price their being able to resolve NATIONAL problems btw those are the ones outside London.

Sure there hasn't been a U-turn?

You wish! Dig your walking boots out Lovejoy, you may well need them soon.

[lovejoy]

It would seem some posters want to know about London`s postion and in fact a couple of posters have been very critical of the reps and indeed London per say.

For the record the London members took 20 days of strike action last year in order for the union to get in the room, unlike a number of posters on here who talk a good fight but when the union called on offices not to agree savings and to ballot for strike action did nothing.

In London we held the line because we dont just talk the talk we actually walk the walk. We were not going to agree geo route revisons , we were not going to agree the unagreed indoor workload tool , we were not going to agree more part time duties at the expense of full time jobs. We were not going to agree the removal of 4 day weeks and 9 day fortnights.

As a result of the London membership holding the national policy we have 98 revisions imposed. Had it not been for London , some offices in Scotland , Plymouth , Bristol , Network and some other brave units. Fact was there was never a desire by some both at Heaquaters and in the field to have a national ballot. It was us who forced that and it was us who got negotations back way before the national ballot.

Since 5th November and the London joint statement we have spent literally hundreds of hours locked in rooms with acas attempting to resolve the executive action.

Last Friday the London Divisional Committee consisting of all Branch`s in London endorsed a policy which will be relayed to our members later this week if we have not made progress.

In terms of supporting Dave Ward blindly , well you simply dont know what your talking about.

Instead of asking what London is doing why dont you put up what your Branch is doing. Its easy saying what you are doing as an indivdual but its much harder trying to get a collective postion.

In London we always attempt to stick together if we can and sometimes there are heated discussions and different points of view. However one thing no one in the union can deny is that London postal workers stand up for this union and terms and conditions.

So it is a cheap shot and out of order to criticise London postal workers for having good terms and conditions as they have fought for them.

Well Dingo our Branch is a no vote - does that mean we are doing the Lambeth walk per se?

As for the Interim Agreement - surely that is now over as the new agreement is on the table - also if it has taken months and still no resolution over your problems then what price their being able to resolve NATIONAL problems btw those are the ones outside London.

Sure there hasn't been a U-turn?

You wish! Dig your walking boots out Lovejoy, you may well need them soon.

Had them on today actually......... I was being serious I've heard your committee had changed their recommendation....

[gb93]

Good to see you on line posting some nice 1 line answers lovejoy.

Would you care to give us your answer on "Whats the top 10% about"

[fishtank]

Had them on today actually......... I was being serious I've heard your committee had changed their recommendation.

Well if that is true they now look idiotic and i would suggest they get their walking boots out too.