still no answer about later saturdays

[rolf]

Just to throw in another arguement, we were told 2day that we are going to staggered start time ie, some walks 6 - 2pm, some 630 - 230pm and the rest 7 - 3pm, this is because the walk sequencing machines, and this also saturday as well

[belle smith]

Untill HQ publish the details of how satudays will work the sooner the question will have its answer revelead. All we can do is to sit and wait.

Like the 'menu of options' for delivery spans or the performance standards.
The agreement has been published in full, anything else still to be published IS NOT IN THE AGREEMENT!

Oh yes it will - take a look at the agreement again, the revisions and work shops are mentioned and will be subject to the agreement post voting, no doubt about it.

Oh no they wont. thats how they will be worked out alright, but once they are worked out they are not part of the agreement, because they can be worked out again and again. How do you think RM plans to get us all to perform at the level of the top 10%, I'm not saying thats the unions plan because it's obviously not, but is there anything in the agreement preventing it?

[drb]

Look.We can argue about the money end.However it is not what I went out for.It is/was their bullying. Let the stupid sods work 8 hours on a Saturday. Flood it with P/T on a Saturday,(they will also get their £20.62 and part of Colleague Share now). Sod them. Monday to Friday we carry no weight at all. If the walks fail the rep will arrange manual "tweaking". No cars either,puts us on a level playing field. Do your walk spans at 4 hours with a 4o minute meal relief in between.COMPULSARY.

Let your Linos do their own work then a walk,(this is going to happen...watch!)

[drb]

Oh no they wont. thats how they will be worked out alright, but once they are worked out they are not part of the agreement, because they can be worked out again and again. How do you think RM plans to get us all to perform at the level of the top 10%, I'm not saying thats the unions plan because it's obviously not, but is there anything in the agreement preventing it?

True your top 10% will be from other offices but you have to discount early starters and car users...what are you left with?

[belle smith]

Look.We can argue about the money end.However it is not what I went out for.It is/was their bullying. Let the stupid sods work 8 hours on a Saturday. Flood it with P/T on a Saturday,(they will also get their £20.62 and part of Colleague Share now). Sod them. Monday to Friday we carry no weight at all. If the walks fail the rep will arrange manual "tweaking". No cars either,puts us on a level playing field. Do your walk spans at 4 hours with a 4o minute meal relief in between.COMPULSARY.

Let your Linos do their own work then a walk,(this is going to happen...watch!)

Sounds like a plan......except we don't have a 4 hour delivery span. my lino will be saying that there is no restriction to delivery spans and he'll be right.

[Danelectro]

Untill HQ publish the details of how satudays will work the sooner the question will have its answer revelead. All we can do is to sit and wait.

Like the 'menu of options' for delivery spans or the performance standards.
The agreement has been published in full, anything else still to be published IS NOT IN THE AGREEMENT!

And like everything outside the agreement will be subject to alteration if necessary.

My good mate who is the IR rep was at the glasgow meeting and to my amazement has come back looking like hes been convinced to vote yes and he was a solid no.

He keeps trying to assure me that its not going to be like it was in the past ie;all duty revisions etc will be done on our terms and if there is any problems a senior rep will be up like a shot to sort out any trouble!He thinks under the agreement we can negotiate max delivery spans locally and says Bob Gibson said there is scope to keep deliveries early than 3 o clock last letter!

It all sounds too good to be true and tomorrow for the first time im going to have to argue against some of his assumptions at WTL.Nightmare!

[Steviea34]

Look.We can argue about the money end.However it is not what I went out for.It is/was their bullying. Let the stupid sods work 8 hours on a Saturday. Flood it with P/T on a Saturday,(they will also get their £20.62 and part of Colleague Share now). Sod them. Monday to Friday we carry no weight at all. If the walks fail the rep will arrange manual "tweaking". No cars either,puts us on a level playing field. Do your walk spans at 4 hours with a 4o minute meal relief in between.COMPULSARY.

Let your Linos do their own work then a walk,(this is going to happen...watch!)

Sorry. Dont understand, are you saying set all outdoor at 4 hours, expect this is why we have Del spans that will be set at a theoretical
unlimited span.

[drb]

"Sounds like a plan......except we don't have a 4 hour delivery span. my lino will be saying that there is no restriction to delivery spans and he'll be right."

He has not seen the options yet...you will.Get involved with your rep once he does the planning. You won't work 8 hours on a saturday...your lino will.They are not happy with this deal because it puts you in the middle of it

[drb]

Sorry. Dont understand, are you saying set all outdoor at 4 hours, expect this is why we have Del spans that will be set at a theoretical
unlimited span.

No it will be an "enabler". The current legislation is you must have at least 20 minutes.LAW. Your HCT or bikes could be 1,2,3 hour spans with indoor work to make up your 8 hours for the day. It is TRUST that is the BIG obstruction here.This is where the "outside" people need to intervene.

[belle smith]

Oh no they wont. thats how they will be worked out alright, but once they are worked out they are not part of the agreement, because they can be worked out again and again. How do you think RM plans to get us all to perform at the level of the top 10%, I'm not saying thats the unions plan because it's obviously not, but is there anything in the agreement preventing it?

True your top 10% will be from other offices but you have to discount early starters and car users...what are you left with?

Good point, as it happens i like the workshop on performance standards, just want the figures agreed in advance and put in the agreement.

I trust that the union will also when involved in these workshops, will be testing the performance of staff on the exsisting agreed standards for 1 min test (31 for ips) (25 for prep) and discounting from the workshop anyone performing over and above the requiered standards.......if i sort 31 on ips for 1 min and someone else sorts at 40, they are over performing i'm not under performing.

Just a thought.

[drb]

We have to accept one thing and one thing only. We are kanckered financially. However let's make US part of the future.
The goverment want us to modernise. Done
The management want us to work all our hours.Done
The deal does want us to trust.This is where it goes wrong.
They will do all they can to save face. It is if we let them.Get every last drop for the membership.
Every last line of the agreement to be followed.
Help your rep.
Get involved.
Half of us are willing to go on to this forum at 9pm and argue.
Put that effort and help him/her out.

[belle smith]

"Sounds like a plan......except we don't have a 4 hour delivery span. my lino will be saying that there is no restriction to delivery spans and he'll be right."

He has not seen the options yet...you will.Get involved with your rep once he does the planning. You won't work 8 hours on a saturday...your lino will.They are not happy with this deal because it puts you in the middle of it

Because the options....the menu....is not part of the agreement.
If your going to correct me on that point could you tell which page of the agreement i can find all the options on.

[drb]

I know how you feel Belle......you don't trust them.However our pension is soon to be announced at a defecit of 10 billion. That is 250 million put in as normal.Then another 250 million to keep us afloat. That is fine now.But with inflation what is is,and the goverment allowing stupid DSA prices. Here is an example :

DSA for TNT = 13p per letter

Costs us = 20p per letter

On that basis,we need to put the ball in their court. We are working all hours. We have accepted a potential growth market,(D2D). If it does'nt work...then who's fault is it?

[belle smith]

Help your rep.
Get involved.
Half of us are willing to go on to this forum at 9pm and argue.
Put that effort and help him/her out.

Thats a fair point, we probally should all do more of that.

ps. drb i've enjoyed posting back and forth with you. ie. it hasn't decended into name calling and personnal attacks, i don't see us agreeing....so goodnight and goodluck.

[welshy808]

Untill HQ publish the details of how satudays will work the sooner the question will have its answer revelead. All we can do is to sit and wait.

Like the 'menu of options' for delivery spans or the performance standards.
The agreement has been published in full, anything else still to be published IS NOT IN THE AGREEMENT!

And like everything outside the agreement will be subject to alteration if necessary.

My good mate who is the IR rep was at the glasgow meeting and to my amazement has come back looking like hes been convinced to vote yes and he was a solid no.

He keeps trying to assure me that its not going to be like it was in the past ie;all duty revisions etc will be done on our terms and if there is any problems a senior rep will be up like a shot to sort out any trouble!He thinks under the agreement we can negotiate max delivery spans locally and says Bob Gibson said there is scope to keep deliveries early than 3 o clock last letter!

It all sounds too good to be true and tomorrow for the first time im going to have to argue against some of his assumptions at WTL.Nightmare!

You should tell your mate that Bob Gibson can say what he want's but the agreement says
"Royal Mail and CWU have come together to agree a plan"
and that plan says
"The need for CWU to recognise that Royal Mail management has absolute accountability to the public, its customers, employees and stakeholders, for the performance of the business."
it also says
"we want to bring everybody’s actual performance up to the level of the top 10 per cent"
then it also says
"Both parties also recognise that in addition to growth in the core D2D product further commercial opportunities are likely to exist particularly for named/specific day(s) products and/or Saturdays which may provide Royal Mail with additional scope for increased revenue."
and
"The new workplan standardises service delivery times Monday to Saturday. Letter delivery completion times will be up to 1500 hours for residential areas and up to 1600 hours for rural."
it also says
"Door to Door will become a 52 weeks a year product."

I could go on and on but the spin Bob Gibson has put on this agreement with the help of Dave Ward is reminiscent of Mandleson and Blair.
Forget listening to the spin from Dave Ward, Bob Gibson, the Truth, Dingo or Lovejoy but please try to get members at office to actually read this agreement. They might not fall for the Bullshit.