our REPS changed his tune !!

[singingpostman]

Worse off for more work and working till much later on a Saturday and this is a success for the CWU is it ?, pull the other one its got bells on, vote no, if theres no plan b,then there bloody well should be. Smoke mirrors and bullshit. I can only assume you reps who are saying yes don,t actually do a duty like the rest of us, and must have another source of income from somewhere, because bu99ered if I could live on less money, let alone have the pleasure of doing more work for it. thank god only another 5 years in this job.

[welshy808]

I done exactly the same after attending the glasgow meeting, lets put a few facts in the face of your argument,

These are not FACTSthey are supposition and scaremongering.

1) d2d is not a guranteed payment, it could end next year and probably will if a no vote is returned,

Agreed D2D are not guaranteed, but they are both a profitable and a growth area

2) if they put six in one envelope as they trialled in swindon, your d2d payments drop alarmingly,

D2D customers like the fact that items are delivered individually that is why we are not allowed to put one inside another.

3) d2d is now put into your workload, thus protecting our jobs,

The only time D2D would be any different would be at a Georoute review, which granted is something but not the be all and end all that HQ seem to making out. Single day D2D even on a Saturday but not 100% call rate in Pegasus, now where is the sense in that. It will just give more ammunition along with the top 10% argument to those Managers that Bully and Harass delivery staff if they are unable to complete within duty time.

) the £20.62 payment is paid 52 weeks a year, not just when you do d2d's, just part of the reason I changed my view, and where do we go if there's a no vote, whats plan b, I would like to know what more you think you can get out of royal mail in this economic climate?

£20.60 payment 52 weeks a year does not make up for the loss of earnings and we will have to deliver unlimited D2D during the Christmas pressure period.
As for the current economic climate, did Royal Mail post record Profits or record losses? The payment on D2D has dropped by only £180,000 this year out of the £52,000,000. that is less than 0.5% this could easily be put down to other companies that send D2D cutting back, but when the economic climate changes they will be back, but if a Yes vote goes through you will never get your D2D payments back.

[belle smith]

I done exactly the same after attending the glasgow meeting, lets put a few facts in the face of your argument, 1) d2d is not a guranteed payment, it could end next year and probably will if a no vote is returned, 2) if they put six in one envelope as they trialled in swindon, your d2d payments drop alarmingly, 3) d2d is now put into your workload, thus protecting our jobs,4) the £20.62 payment is paid 52 weeks a year, not just when you do d2d's, just part of the reason I changed my view, and where do we go if there's a no vote, whats plan b, I would like to know what more you think you can get out of royal mail in this economic climate?

is that aimed at me Joe?

I think your playing fast and losse with the word fact. 1) not a gaurenteed payment? are you saying we have no agreement with RM agreeing to pay us seprately for d2d, if so i don't belive you. 2) have to say i'm unaware of the swindon trial that you mention...i deffer to your greater knowlege of that, but i don't think customers want them delivered like that. 3)With regards to delivery staff i think thats disengeuious, as the legal requierment to provide the USO protects our jobs already,The increase in d2d may protect some jobs in MC's and may help in gaining f/t work for some of our p/t colleags....i have no quarel with that. 4) fine i've never disputed that, but even so it will still be a reduction in many peoples take home pay in an agreement that also increases the outdoor workload eg. delivery span.

I maintain (plan A) more physically demanding job for less money is unacceptable to me.

[clashcityrocker]

Is it fair that a postie who works in an area that doesn't get any D2D because of his geographical location should earn less in his 40 hours than a postie who is lucky enough to work in an area with a high demand for D2D?
They both work 40 hrs. One takes home £30 less each week. Not because he does less work but because he does different work.
I bet if it was you, you would view the delivery supplement differently.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

One thing I would like to know about the delivery supplement is.

Will it last longer than the Grandfather Rights given to me for my Early Shift Allowance, or can it be taken away in a couple of years?

If there is nothing from stopping it disappearing in the future, why should I vote to give up my payments for D2D that Royal Mail cannot stop paying while I deliver D2D?

To quote the agreement:

The supplement will increase in value as agreed in basic pay rises. It will flow through in 2011 and 2012.

But there is no mention of 2013 and beyond.

Although hopefully they will.

[proper postie]

Is it fair that a postie who works in an area that doesn't get any D2D because of his geographical location should earn less in his 40 hours than a postie who is lucky enough to work in an area with a high demand for D2D?
They both work 40 hrs. One takes home £30 less each week. Not because he does less work but because he does different work.
I bet if it was you, you would view the delivery supplement differently.

Of course it's fair,why should you be paid for something you don't do?

Your hypothetical postie doesn't have the hassle of prepping d2d's or the weight of the things in his bag,why should he get money for other peoples work?

[clashcityrocker]

Is it fair that a postie who works in an area that doesn't get any D2D because of his geographical location should earn less in his 40 hours than a postie who is lucky enough to work in an area with a high demand for D2D?
They both work 40 hrs. One takes home £30 less each week. Not because he does less work but because he does different work.
I bet if it was you, you would view the delivery supplement differently.

Of course it's fair,why should you be paid for something you don't do?

Your hypothetical postie doesn't have the hassle of prepping d2d's or the weight of the things in his bag,why should he get money for other peoples work?

Postie A preps 1400 items on his walk but no D2D.
Postie B preps 1400 items including 300 D2D items.
Same work but different pay. You think that is fair? I don't.
My guess is there will be more people better off with the new supplement than without it (they just don't post on RMC).

[belle smith]

Is it fair that a postie who works in an area that doesn't get any D2D because of his geographical location should earn less in his 40 hours than a postie who is lucky enough to work in an area with a high demand for D2D?
They both work 40 hrs. One takes home £30 less each week. Not because he does less work but because he does different work.
I bet if it was you, you would view the delivery supplement differently.

Probally not.
Is it fair for DO staff who work indoors only to be paid a delivery supplement?
How luck will the postie who works in a area of high demand be with the 3 d2d limit removed?
Is harder work for less money a good deal?

[welshy808]

One thing I would like to know about the delivery supplement is.

Will it last longer than the Grandfather Rights given to me for my Early Shift Allowance, or can it be taken away in a couple of years?

If there is nothing from stopping it disappearing in the future, why should I vote to give up my payments for D2D that Royal Mail cannot stop paying while I deliver D2D?

To quote the agreement:

The supplement will increase in value as agreed in basic pay rises. It will flow through in 2011 and 2012.

But there is no mention of 2013 and beyond.

Although hopefully they will.

To Quote the 2007 pay and modernisation agreement

1.3 Early shift allowances in delivery retained as grandfather rights (for
those in receipt since April 2007)

If RM and CWU can renege on this agreement so quickly, why should I trust them not to do the same with this delivery supplement?

[belle smith]

To Quote the 2007 pay and modernisation agreement

1.3 Early shift allowances in delivery retained as grandfather rights (for
those in receipt since April 2007)

If RM and CWU can renege on this agreement so quickly, why should I trust them not to do the same with this delivery supplement?

CWU always said at the time of the 2007 deal that they could after 3 years negotiate it into basic pay.

[clashcityrocker]

Is it fair for DO staff who work indoors only to be paid a delivery supplement?

Who sorts out the redeliveries? Who sorts out the local collects? Who gets the grief in the callers office? They too work in delivery so they get a delivery supplement.

How lucky will the postie who works in a area of high demand be with the 3 d2d limit removed?

More work = more resources for your DO.

Is harder work for less money a good deal

39 hours is 39 hours.

[Big Daz]

I would ask for your reaction if RM start automating the D2D (admittedly its a big if) as they are trialling in Swindon right now and you started getting 5 or 6 inside one envelope and paid 1.67p each?

I'd be astonished, as you say your self thats a big if, for one thing customer don't want them deliverd like that, and i'd imagine that they would be in breach of the existing agreement.

This sounds like a good cop, bad cop routine.......now we just need to sign our pre writen confession.

PS. not having a go at you laudraup, i appreciate your candor.

What agreement and who is it with? I thought it was just a internal RM policy? No reason why it can be applied to certain types of leaflets?

So long as the customer is aware of the system being used by RML before they place their request for leaflet delivery, then no harm done. If we loose customers as a result , then RML would switch back wouldnt they?

[trythat]

I must admit after attending our AGM, it was Bob Gibson that swayed me to change my mind to a 60/40 yes vote, I was a total no vote. It does look as though most of us who have changed their minds, have had Bob Gibson speaking to them somewhere in the mix.

As I said after my AGM, it really is worth trying to get to your AGM, especially if someone from headquarters is going to be there, but particularly if Bob Gibson is there, I'm not suggesting that anyone will change their mind, but it will allow you to ask questions to one of the negotiators.

Don't get me wrong, I still think it's a crap deal, but I don't really see where else we can go, I know we don't have the fight to go out on the streets in our office, we had problems getting them out last time. I've already had a number of people asking when they get their 400 quid, and once RM start sending out their letters and WTL sessions, I only expect more in this vain, a bit pathetic really, but there you go.

[belle smith]

Who sorts out the redeliveries? Who sorts out the local collects? Who gets the grief in the callers office? They too work in delivery so they get a delivery supplement.

Why not pay the MC staff it as well then? These staff don't do deliveries and the people in my office who do these duties have lots of seniority and picked these duties because physically they are much easier! I think you've lost your sense of fairness because it doesn't coroborate your view.

More work = more resources for your DO.

Or you's aren't up to the 10% standard.

Is harder work for less money a good deal

39 hours is 39 hours.

Was that a yes?????
and we currently do 17.5 of those delivering we will do more than this under this agreement, if your saying that the ips or prep is just the same as delivering then your having a laugh!!! and i think we will just have to agree to disagree.

[belle smith]

What agreement and who is it with? I thought it was just a internal RM policy? No reason why it can be applied to certain types of leaflets?

So long as the customer is aware of the system being used by RML before they place their request for leaflet delivery, then no harm done. If we loose customers as a result , then RML would switch back wouldnt they?

are you saying we don't have an agreement to be paid for delivering d2d? why do RM pay us for them just now then.....generocity of spirit?