D2D Presentation.

[fishtank]

They will automate D2D, they do it in other countries...another post on the forum says they have already had D2D bundled into one.

1 bundled D2D with 6 items inside at 1.67 x 500 calls = £8.35 you do the maths on how much you would lose. The new agreement puts the D2D into work load so basically you get paid twice. in our wages and in the delivery supplement. The most important fact is that the D2D will be classed as mail..... Not only protecting full-time jobs but creating them.

So if you believe this than tell me.
What exactly will stop Royal Mail putting all you beloved D2Ds into one envelope and completely screw up your important fact that D2D will be classed as mail..... Not only protecting full-time jobs but creating them?
It's ok your not the first on here to try and fight two sides of the same argument.

[NoSurrenderX]

They will automate D2D, they do it in other countries...another post on the forum says they have already had D2D bundled into one.

1 bundled D2D with 6 items inside at 1.67 x 500 calls = £8.35 you do the maths on how much you would lose. The new agreement puts the D2D into work load so basically you get paid twice. in our wages and in the delivery supplement. The most important fact is that the D2D will be classed as mail..... Not only protecting full-time jobs but creating them.

So if you believe this than tell me.
What exactly will stop Royal Mail putting all you beloved D2Ds into one envelope and completely screw up your important fact that D2D will be classed as mail..... Not only protecting full-time jobs but creating them?
It's ok your not the first on here to try and fight two sides of the same argument.

They probably will but it will still be in work load.....lets say 500 calls so 500 letters per duty with D2D items in workload with individual items on specific days is still a lot more than -500 items and individual items on certain days in workload. We will still have the £20.60 payment.

[dvbuk55]

So will we be able to cut off. If we cant deliver our D2D items during our time.

What a very good question jr - that will depend on whether or not it is considered you are working to the top 10% of the parameters for performance - if you are you could cut off - if you're not you should watch your back. Course everyone should be able to finish with the non-specific time limit on delivery - and what does that mean - well whilst you are snoozing in bed someone is throwing off your delivery including the 10 lots of D2D and when you get in at 7 am there will be little to do but finish off, tie up and away you go.

Won't happen I hear the cry - well there is absolutely NOTHING in this agreement to prevent it.

[fishtank]

They probably will but it will still be in work load.....lets say 500 calls so 500 letters per duty with D2D items in workload with individual items on specific days is still a lot more than -500 items and individual items on certain days in workload. We will still have the £20.60 payment.

I will remind you that it's less than 17% of 500 letters per day which adds up to the square root of feck all in indoor workload terms and about 2% on your callrate for outdoor workload.

"We will still have the £20.60 payment"

Well just how permanent is permanent?

A message from Billy Hayes, General Secretary and Dave Ward, Deputy General Secretary (Postal) from 2007.
"Early shift allowance in delivery will be permanently retained"

[REDROB]

all you area reps on full time release,before recommending acceptance should see what its like in the real world and try to deliver seven plus d2ds as well as your heavy workload for 20 pound a week(when we would maybe get 70 as we stand now)

[NoSurrenderX]

They probably will but it will still be in work load.....lets say 500 calls so 500 letters per duty with D2D items in workload with individual items on specific days is still a lot more than -500 items and individual items on certain days in workload. We will still have the £20.60 payment.

I will remind you that it's less than 17% of 500 letters per day which adds up to the square root of feck all in indoor workload terms and about 2% on your callrate for outdoor workload.

"We will still have the £20.60 payment"

Well just how permanent is permanent?

A message from Billy Hayes, General Secretary and Dave Ward, Deputy General Secretary (Postal) from 2007.
"Early shift allowance in delivery will be permanently retained"

It has been retained in the delivery supplement.....I don't have all the answers and you cant please everybody. I am just trying to look at the agreement in a different way to the clowns that just hear about the D2D and say the whole agreement is "Shite" Whats the alternative? Go back out on strike? Tell Royal Mail to turn down work and stay at 3 items per week? 26 licences were agreed last year to allow competitors to handle/deliver mail. TNT and others are putting their own people out on the streets delivering leaflets because we refuse to do anymore than 3....they will start doing their own letters as well...Same city to city to start with then who knows?? This agreement stabilizes us and gives the business the chance to make more money. We need to get the idea that the company owe us anything out of our head. We have a good deal to where we were 6 months ago. If you don`t like it then vote no. Atleast think about what will happen if we deliver a no vote. Do you think Royal Mail will say here you go boys/girls here is another £30 a week? have another hour off your working week? have a £3000 lump sum? and please yourself how long your delivery is??

[dvbuk55]

They probably will but it will still be in work load.....lets say 500 calls so 500 letters per duty with D2D items in workload with individual items on specific days is still a lot more than -500 items and individual items on certain days in workload. We will still have the £20.60 payment.

I will remind you that it's less than 17% of 500 letters per day which adds up to the square root of feck all in indoor workload terms and about 2% on your callrate for outdoor workload.

"We will still have the £20.60 payment"

Well just how permanent is permanent?

A message from Billy Hayes, General Secretary and Dave Ward, Deputy General Secretary (Postal) from 2007.
"Early shift allowance in delivery will be permanently retained"

It has been retained in the delivery supplement.....I don't have all the answers and you cant please everybody. I am just trying to look at the agreement in a different way to the clowns that just hear about the D2D and say the whole agreement is "Shite" Whats the alternative? Go back out on strike? Tell Royal Mail to turn down work and stay at 3 items per week? 26 licences were agreed last year to allow competitors to handle/deliver mail. TNT and others are putting their own people out on the streets delivering leaflets because we refuse to do anymore than 3....they will start doing their own letters as well...Same city to city to start with then who knows?? This agreement stabilizes us and gives the business the chance to make more money. We need to get the idea that the company owe us anything out of our head. We have a good deal to where we were 6 months ago. If you don`t like it then vote no. Atleast think about what will happen if we deliver a no vote. Do you think Royal Mail will say here you go boys/girls here is another £30 a week? have another hour off your working week? have a £3000 lump sum? and please yourself how long your delivery is??

Well of course you are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to make sweeping statements about the suitability of this deal that clearly does NOT promise what is on the tin.

This deal was never about money, certainly not about amassing great wealth but really a pay cut? However we get to the real reasons for the strike and I will let my best mate explain what the strike was about and how we have fared against them:

vlcsnap-2009-11-08-19h04m13s11.png

Job Security - nothing in this deal guarantees job security, lip service is paid to it but neither full time nor part time jobs are secured

Benefit - well we are benefiting marginally but it will take 3 years

Better working conditions - well by no stretch of the imagination have those been improved, longer Saturday, unspecified delivery span, uncapped D2D, unseen revision tools, slimline IR framework in 6 months time again sight unseen.

So should we accept this as the reward for supporting the union for strike action and giving them our trust - the answer is NO.

[NoSurrenderX]

They probably will but it will still be in work load.....lets say 500 calls so 500 letters per duty with D2D items in workload with individual items on specific days is still a lot more than -500 items and individual items on certain days in workload. We will still have the £20.60 payment.

I will remind you that it's less than 17% of 500 letters per day which adds up to the square root of feck all in indoor workload terms and about 2% on your callrate for outdoor workload.

"We will still have the £20.60 payment"

Well just how permanent is permanent?

A message from Billy Hayes, General Secretary and Dave Ward, Deputy General Secretary (Postal) from 2007.
"Early shift allowance in delivery will be permanently retained"

It has been retained in the delivery supplement.....I don't have all the answers and you cant please everybody. I am just trying to look at the agreement in a different way to the clowns that just hear about the D2D and say the whole agreement is "Shite" Whats the alternative? Go back out on strike? Tell Royal Mail to turn down work and stay at 3 items per week? 26 licences were agreed last year to allow competitors to handle/deliver mail. TNT and others are putting their own people out on the streets delivering leaflets because we refuse to do anymore than 3....they will start doing their own letters as well...Same city to city to start with then who knows?? This agreement stabilizes us and gives the business the chance to make more money. We need to get the idea that the company owe us anything out of our head. We have a good deal to where we were 6 months ago. If you don`t like it then vote no. Atleast think about what will happen if we deliver a no vote. Do you think Royal Mail will say here you go boys/girls here is another £30 a week? have another hour off your working week? have a £3000 lump sum? and please yourself how long your delivery is??

Well of course you are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to make sweeping statements about the suitability of this deal that clearly does NOT promise what is on the tin.

This deal was never about money, certainly not about amassing great wealth but really a pay cut? However we get to the real reasons for the strike and I will let my best mate explain what the strike was about and how we have fared against them:

vlcsnap-2009-11-08-19h04m13s11.png

Job Security - nothing in this deal guarantees job security, lip service is paid to it but neither full time nor part time jobs are secured

Benefit - well we are benefiting marginally but it will take 3 years

Better working conditions - well by no stretch of the imagination have those been improved, longer Saturday, unspecified delivery span, uncapped D2D, unseen revision tools, slimline IR framework in 6 months time again sight unseen.

So should we accept this as the reward for supporting the union for strike action and giving them our trust - the answer is NO.

Have you even read the Business Transformation 2010 and Beyond agreement pal?? Come back when you understand it!

[dvbuk55]

They probably will but it will still be in work load.....lets say 500 calls so 500 letters per duty with D2D items in workload with individual items on specific days is still a lot more than -500 items and individual items on certain days in workload. We will still have the £20.60 payment.

I will remind you that it's less than 17% of 500 letters per day which adds up to the square root of feck all in indoor workload terms and about 2% on your callrate for outdoor workload.

"We will still have the £20.60 payment"

Well just how permanent is permanent?

A message from Billy Hayes, General Secretary and Dave Ward, Deputy General Secretary (Postal) from 2007.
"Early shift allowance in delivery will be permanently retained"

It has been retained in the delivery supplement.....I don't have all the answers and you cant please everybody. I am just trying to look at the agreement in a different way to the clowns that just hear about the D2D and say the whole agreement is "Shite" Whats the alternative? Go back out on strike? Tell Royal Mail to turn down work and stay at 3 items per week? 26 licences were agreed last year to allow competitors to handle/deliver mail. TNT and others are putting their own people out on the streets delivering leaflets because we refuse to do anymore than 3....they will start doing their own letters as well...Same city to city to start with then who knows?? This agreement stabilizes us and gives the business the chance to make more money. We need to get the idea that the company owe us anything out of our head. We have a good deal to where we were 6 months ago. If you don`t like it then vote no. Atleast think about what will happen if we deliver a no vote. Do you think Royal Mail will say here you go boys/girls here is another £30 a week? have another hour off your working week? have a £3000 lump sum? and please yourself how long your delivery is??

Well of course you are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to make sweeping statements about the suitability of this deal that clearly does NOT promise what is on the tin.

This deal was never about money, certainly not about amassing great wealth but really a pay cut? However we get to the real reasons for the strike and I will let my best mate explain what the strike was about and how we have fared against them:

vlcsnap-2009-11-08-19h04m13s11.png

Job Security - nothing in this deal guarantees job security, lip service is paid to it but neither full time nor part time jobs are secured

Benefit - well we are benefiting marginally but it will take 3 years

Better working conditions - well by no stretch of the imagination have those been improved, longer Saturday, unspecified delivery span, uncapped D2D, unseen revision tools, slimline IR framework in 6 months time again sight unseen.

So should we accept this as the reward for supporting the union for strike action and giving them our trust - the answer is NO.

Have you even read the Business Transformation 2010 and Beyond agreement pal?? Come back when you understand it!

I have read all three that have become available and I understand them perfectly - I would say to you that the words are the words and that is what the agreement will be implemented on - not a wish list or reading into sections that LOOK to be beneficial but are actually nothing at all in reality.

If you can point to the relevant sections and dispute what I say - feel free.

[andy2007]

7% Over 3 years. Make that 4. No rise last year.Agree D2D is worth Millions so why havent they changed the rate since 1996. Our PHG will be getting the £20.60 for not lifting a finger to deliver a D2D. My Driver will be getting £20.60 to take me out to my walk but not lifting a finger to deliver a D2D. So why should i go out of my way to deliver any. And where does this 'lots more overtime' come from. Who wants to go out at 4 oclock to get a couple of hours OT. Summer O/t is being dropped to 2 1/2 hours for half a walk and only 5 on your rest day. Which wiill include D2D for on extra money.

Ok well lets reject the deal....go back on strike. lose £100s that we will never get back let Royal Mail put all D2D in one envelope and get paid 1.67 for 1 item then be told there is no improved offer and let TNT take us over then.

Why are you so sure that if we (hopefully) manage to vote out this deal, it will result in more Strikes?
All it would mean. Would be that the negotiators would have to go back and try to make ammendments to the deal. Of course, there's always a risk of Strike action, if things go badly wrong. But it's by no means a certainty.

The whole point of having the opportunity to vote on deals, is to give us the chance to say whether we believe that the deal is a good one, or not. If it's not. Then it's time to go back to the table. We don't have to accept whatever we're offered, or face more Strikes. That wouldn't be a fair vote, would it?

[POSTMAN]

So will we be able to cut off. If we cant deliver our D2D items during our time.

Yes.

[k979aaa]

So will we be able to cut off. If we cant deliver our D2D items during our time.

Yes.

The trouble with this agreement is the lack of clarity not only that but ambiguity who is too tell all those part time staff they need not do it in their own time for every minute a manager saves is a part of their bonus and due to the deal in 2007 by the CMA their pension!. Why in gods name did we ever agree to decouple our pensions for a failed agreement in the hope to avert this pension deficit to this end and who can only benefit from this :cfo and his minions!. :cfo :mfo

[Spedley]

We DIDN'T go on strike for a bonus
We DIDN'T go on strike for a pay rise
We DIDN'T go on strike to lose Early Shift Allowance
We DIDN'T go on strike for to do D2D for £8 per week
We DIDN'T go on strike to lose the cap on D2D
We DIND'T go on strike for VR

We DO want automation but, when it is ready
We DO want to keep full time jobs where possible
We DO want an independent view on work load
We DO want an end to bullying and harassment for unrealistic work loads
We DO want consulting on changes and 'the way forward'
We DO want to keep the industry service oriented and not private

Exactly where is my commitment to the union, the strikes and my future reflected in this agreement?

[martinapsid]

early Saturdays whats those in this area 1.45-2.00 is Saturday finish and my area will never strike again the union has been told that and the managers know that
as well

[Urban Smith]

7% Over 3 years. Make that 4. No rise last year.Agree D2D is worth Millions so why havent they changed the rate since 1996. Our PHG will be getting the £20.60 for not lifting a finger to deliver a D2D. My Driver will be getting £20.60 to take me out to my walk but not lifting a finger to deliver a D2D. So why should i go out of my way to deliver any. And where does this 'lots more overtime' come from. Who wants to go out at 4 oclock to get a couple of hours OT. Summer O/t is being dropped to 2 1/2 hours for half a walk and only 5 on your rest day. Which wiill include D2D for on extra money.

Ok well lets reject the deal....go back on strike. lose £100s that we will never get back let Royal Mail put all D2D in one envelope and get paid 1.67 for 1 item then be told there is no improved offer and let TNT take us over then.

Don't you think if Royal Mail planned to put all your D2Ds in one envelope they would have done.....just that.
You are buying into fable stories and myths.
If anything this agreement will make us much more attractive to TNT anyway.

They will automate D2D, they do it in other countries...another post on the forum says they have already had D2D bundled into one.

1 bundled D2D with 6 items inside at 1.67 x 500 calls = £8.35 you do the maths on how much you would lose. The new agreement puts the D2D into work load so basically you get paid twice. in our wages and in the delivery supplement. The most important fact is that the D2D will be classed as mail..... Not only protecting full-time jobs but creating them.

No ! - 1 bundled D2D with six items = (7 x 1.67 x 500) - 6 items plus the envelope they come in.

What makes you think they'll all be 1.67 item anyway. Some are real heavy bastards.

You think this will make walks shorter ? You're having a laugh.

Just explain to me why RM won't pay "per item" ?

BTW, I'd like to see a machine that can collate all the differet types of D2D shite we receive. If RM could do it they would have done so by now.