Understanding the agreement

[macphee1]

Someone earlier in the thread posted that under the need to make savings,managers would ignore the agreement etc..

As a rep,who was at the Glasgow briefing yesterday this issue of trust was discussed and my understanding was that the basis of revisions would not be savings,but fair and accurate traffic recording of traffic,including door to door and the as yet unseen workload tools etc..


Now assuming these standards are fair and achievable this seems to offer chances to improve things in my office.

As an aside,when discussing this with my manager ,who i argue with daily,he was both aware of this fact and expressed some relief at not having to find some budget savings

And do you believe him or even trust him it is his job if he does not meet the targets and his bonus if he does?.

On a work level,of course I don't trust him.He's taken the devils shilling and does what he has to do.Outside work I do trust him but we'll never be best friends because of what he has to do as a job.

The question was more about the unseen work standards,revision tools,methods etc..

As someone who will lose out financially I'm reserving judgement until I have more detail.Maybe The Truth can let us know when this is likely.

[Spartacus]

as I said before...mugs.

Take it from that you don't have any rurals in your office, or even any awareness of what a rural delivery entails.

[belle smith]

Someone earlier in the thread posted that under the need to make savings,managers would ignore the agreement etc..

As a rep,who was at the Glasgow briefing yesterday this issue of trust was discussed and my understanding was that the basis of revisions would not be savings,but fair and accurate traffic recording of traffic,including door to door and the as yet unseen workload tools etc..


Now assuming these standards are fair and achievable this seems to offer chances to improve things in my office.

As an aside,when discussing this with my manager ,who i argue with daily,he was both aware of this fact and expressed some relief at not having to find some budget savings

It might have been me, thats a point i've made on many occassions. I hope thats accurate but i'm unconvinsed, and that 'understanding' is not explicitly stated in the agreement....That delivery spans no longer have a maximum limit but should be seen as an enabler is. I'm not keen on the figures for the revision tools being unseen and not in the agreement either.

[SWIM]

as I said before...mugs.

Take it from that you don't have any rurals in your office, or even any awareness of what a rural delivery entails.

over half my office is rural.
so all your office is going well over their time every day?

[belle smith]

as I said before...mugs.

Take it from that you don't have any rurals in your office, or even any awareness of what a rural delivery entails.

over half my office is rural.
so all your office is going well over their time every day?

are your rurals limited to 3.5hrs??
It doesn't mean they are going over there time in our office rurals don't do any longer than 30mins primary.

[thegreatesttommy]

This question has been asked on here several times and no one will answer it, I've asked the ADR and no answer is forthcoming.

Dawn shift allowance for 4 am starts, is that allowance to be further protected with grandfather rights or is it part of the delivery supplement?

No you will continue to recieve your allowance for 4am starts. Only those who still recieve the £12 and £6 payments which were early shift 1 and 2 which ceased as allowances in 2007 will have that now merged into the supplement.

what about if through business driven change you are on the dawn shift allowance currently only as a result of 'grandfather rights'....
sorry i seem to be replicating what has already been said... just wanted clarification on this.....

regards

[Spartacus]

as I said before...mugs.

Take it from that you don't have any rurals in your office, or even any awareness of what a rural delivery entails.

over half my office is rural.
so all your office is going well over their time every day?

Our rurals don't do any IPS the day consists of prep, delivery and meal relief, add in vehicle checks etc and you're looking at a 5 hour delivery at least, they go over their time on occasion same as our town deliveries do, it's not an every day occurence.

[SWIM]

fair enough.
in my office towns+rural do ips.

[k979aaa]

Someone earlier in the thread posted that under the need to make savings,managers would ignore the agreement etc..

As a rep,who was at the Glasgow briefing yesterday this issue of trust was discussed and my understanding was that the basis of revisions would not be savings,but fair and accurate traffic recording of traffic,including door to door and the as yet unseen workload tools etc..


Now assuming these standards are fair and achievable this seems to offer chances to improve things in my office.

As an aside,when discussing this with my manager ,who i argue with daily,he was both aware of this fact and expressed some relief at not having to find some budget savings

And do you believe him or even trust him it is his job if he does not meet the targets and his bonus if he does?.

On a work level,of course I don't trust him.He's taken the devils shilling and does what he has to do.Outside work I do trust him but we'll never be best friends because of what he has to do as a job.

The question was more about the unseen work standards,revision tools,methods etc..

As someone who will lose out financially I'm reserving judgement until I have more detail.Maybe The Truth can let us know when this is likely.

Fair enough but these managers are under pressure like never before it is their jobs on the line as well as yours and others who post upon this forum!. The devil is in the detail as you quite rightly say which is why this whole thread is entitled so the sooner any info comes out the better or have H/Q something to hide?.

[thegreatesttommy]

This question has been asked on here several times and no one will answer it, I've asked the ADR and no answer is forthcoming.

Dawn shift allowance for 4 am starts, is that allowance to be further protected with grandfather rights or is it part of the delivery supplement?

No you will continue to recieve your allowance for 4am starts. Only those who still recieve the £12 and £6 payments which were early shift 1 and 2 which ceased as allowances in 2007 will have that now merged into the supplement.

Really! So I used to start at 0330 and get £14 something now as a part timer which used to be 26 quid - so I will keep that AND get another part time share of the £20.60 and I won't deliver D2D - not that I ever did even when delivered - wow that's great news - well I used to be a NO voter - well actually I still am a NO voter.

i think you will be delivering 16.66% per day (100% divided by 6 days per week) of whatever d2d is on the job you are doing that day as all d2d will be part of normal workload for that day.....

regards

[belle smith]

Fair enough but these managers are under pressure like never before it is their jobs on the line as well as yours and others who post upon this forum!. The devil is in the detail as you quite rightly say which is why this whole thread is entitled so the sooner any info comes out the better or have H/Q something to hide?.

I'd like to see those details too,but i'll be voting no regardless, because they are not part of the agreement! If they are good then i would possably vote yes if they were put into the agreement.

[belle smith]

I have been in contact with a PEC member and they confirmed it was ES1 and ES2 only going into the supplement.

I have some members on the 2am to 4am shift allowance, so will continue to get it untill their pay protection expires which is this year.

Do i read that right Daz it's not contrabuting to the delivery supplement because there was no grandfather rights for these payments, just the 3 year MTSF arrangements?

[tomangoe]

What is an "enabler" ?

[k979aaa]

What is an "enabler" ?

It's like a big dildo being administered just before you get a big cock rammed up your ass just makes it that bit less uncomfortable for the time being!.

[opgpat]

In regards to one in four saturdays being ingnore turn to page 31 number 5 it clearly talks about a prefence exercise before a revison on Saturdays. If you turn to page 15 titled the workplan where it states that national reviews will ensure that attendance patterns are delivered at local level.

Sorry I can't read that because the link to the Agreement on the cwu site has been cancelled. If it remains so, I can't make up my mind independantly and will vote NO by default.

http://www.cwu.org/assets/_files/docume ... 1268911335_" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again its great quoting 10% per cent etc but read what that states it on page 17 titled productivity : it states that it is essential that measurement systems are fair , objective , equitable ,

mmm It would actually be illegal for the Agreement to state anything else. It's a basic principle of employmet law that same-job workers are treated equally, objectively and work is divided up fairly. So are we supposed to be praising this? A reworking of current legal standards?

it states that it is essential that measurement systems are...fully understood and bench marked on a like for like proecess.

So this means that the Pegasus tool is programmed like for like nationally. OK that's good but contradictory to the allowance for local issues to be taken into account in relation to Pegasus isn't it.

It also states that both parties need to fully understand why there are a range of perfromance levels across Royal Mail.

Again contradictory. The Agreement says all tools are to be bench marked on a like for like but then immediately says there will be a range of performance levels. Does this mean Pegasus will be programmed differently for say rural and urban or does it mean to say that workers don't all work at the same speed? WHAT does it mean?

That is ALL by the by because the VITAL details about Pegasus are the data input - walk speed, call rate, distance over the ground, steps in flats, gradients and NONE of that is addressed here. NONE of it.