Understanding the agreement

[andy2007]

the mail centre closure plan ???????

I don't think he wants to answer that one, or tell us about the RDC closure plans. He's too hung up on Delivery Posties problems. I know that they're facing far worse problems than us. But that's no reason to ignore us, and leave us without the information we so urgently need.

[fishtank]

Now Im no way what so ever going to agree or put any proposals out to vote if they do not match the agreement.

Daz you could come up with anything you like and it could be made to match that agreement.
It's looser than a clowns pocket.
The IR framework is the least of your worries.

[The truth!]

the mail centre closure plan ???????

I don't think he wants to answer that one, or tell us about the RDC closure plans. He's too hung up on Delivery Posties problems. I know that they're facing far worse problems than us. But that's no reason to ignore us, and leave us without the information we so urgently need.

Look i have revealed that Royal Mail want to close mail centres and to get to 46 by the life time of this plan. The union has agreed a consultation process which allows for arguements to be made. However if I am truthful mail centres will close. The reason is what we all know , automation , one outward plan , downstream access by passing the outward and falling traffic are all factors in this process.

Over the last few years all of the following mail centres have closed and Royal Mail are still clear to workplan and during the strikes last year they were able to get other mail centres to perform the work of those out on strike.

North London Mail Centre
Paddington Mail Centre
Oxford Mail Centre
Reading Mail Centre
Liverpool Mail Centre
Stoke Mail Centre

These are closing

Milton Keynes
Crewe
Coventry

Now of course no one likes to know that mail centres are closing but all of these closed without an agreement.

With regards to RDCs there are 11 in the UK and some will close for the same reasons.

[dvbuk55]

the mail centre closure plan ???????

I don't think he wants to answer that one, or tell us about the RDC closure plans. He's too hung up on Delivery Posties problems. I know that they're facing far worse problems than us. But that's no reason to ignore us, and leave us without the information we so urgently need.

I think the problem is on the one hand they are trumpeting how they have secured prosperity and job security on the other hand they do not want to admit to the loss of jobs in Mail Centres and RDCs - you can't really have it both ways. There hasn't exactly been an explanation as to how the delivery 75/25% is going to be achieved when at present it is 79/21% full to part time ratio. I think they are hoping no one will keep asking and if they keep banging on what a good deal it is we will get fed up and vote YES.

[leeboy]

I do 2-3 d2d`s every week without fail,as do the rest of my office [25 blokes] we get no chance of sa or ot so they are our only way of getting more than basic pay, i have 1100 calls you work out the pay cut to me,my entire office does 5.5-6 hour deliery spans and if we go to union meetings we are told well if you did not kill yourselves on those rounds you would go p/t doing 3.5 delievery as there is no other work for you because your a rural office.well give us back the collections and ips you took from us to give the big office down the road and we would have enough work.You can take this deal and stick it.Who do you think will provide the 25%pt? us out here while you look after your mates in the bigger offices after all its because we are rurals .and we would still be better off than all those poor sods at the mail centres you going to sacrifice.

[andy2007]

Thanks The Truth. But what we REALLY need to know, is the timescale proposed. And whether there's any garantees that the automation will be up and running properly before, or AFTER they close. I for one have seen very little automation, and yet, we're hearing of closures. We've got people rushing around and cutting corners already. How do we know that, that won't get worse, by resources being removed, before they've been replaced with reliable alternatives?

[Big Daz]

Now Im no way what so ever going to agree or put any proposals out to vote if they do not match the agreement.

Daz you could come up with anything you like and it could be made to match that agreement.
It's looser than a clowns pocket.
The IR framework is the least of your worries.

Look at it like this there is going to be no support for super size deliveries from me and I would be extremely surpised if the DOM tries for this. Flats and packet still need to be sorted at the IPS stage, deliveries prepped, not really much time for super sized deliveries on a 5 day week is there?

I dont think many in my D.O will want the 4 day week due to the longer day meaning increased workload.

[The truth!]

the mail centre closure plan ???????

I don't think he wants to answer that one, or tell us about the RDC closure plans. He's too hung up on Delivery Posties problems. I know that they're facing far worse problems than us. But that's no reason to ignore us, and leave us without the information we so urgently need.

I think the problem is on the one hand they are trumpeting how they have secured prosperity and job security on the other hand they do not want to admit to the loss of jobs in Mail Centres and RDCs - you can't really have it both ways. There hasn't exactly been an explanation as to how the delivery 75/25% is going to be achieved when at present it is 79/21% full to part time ratio. I think they are hoping no one will keep asking and if they keep banging on what a good deal it is we will get fed up and vote YES.

You keep attacking the agreement but you fail to mention the facts on page 15 that the following applies : TO PROVIDE ONGOING CONFIDENCE, THE ROLL OUT OF THE NEW WORKPLAN AND ASSOCIATED CHANGES WILL BE SUBJECT OF JOINT NATIONAL REVIEWS TO ESTABLISH THAT THE OPERATIONAL ASSUMPTIONS WITHIN THE WORKPLAN SUPPORT THE CRITERIA DETAILED BELOW. AS PART OF THESE REVIEWS BOTH PARTIES COMMIT TO MAKE SUCH IMPROVEMENTS /ADJUSTMENTS AS ARE NECESSARY.

. THAT MAIL ARRIVALS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE TRANSFORMATION WORKPLAN AND SUPPORT AND ENABLE THE ATTENDANCE PATTERNS AND DUTY STRUCTURES CONTAINED IN THE FUNCTIONAL SECTIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT TO BE DELIVERED WITHIN THE WORKPLACE

. THAT THE OPERATIONAL TRANSFORMATION PROGRAMME AND ASSOCIATED WORKPLAN SUPPORT THE NATIONALLY PLANNED STAFFING MIX OF AROUND 75 PER CENT FULL TIME / 25 PER CENT PART TIME.

I think those give the union a strong committment as the workplan has to deliver those two objectives.

[fishtank]

The truth! wrote
"I think those give the union a strong committment as the workplan has to deliver those two objectives.

And if it doesn't.
What then?
What is the plan b if Royal Mail lose interest in this agreement as they did with the last one?

[belle smith]

The MC rationalisation plan is the one area where i buy the Realpolotic line.....What else can they do?

[belle smith]

Look at it like this there is going to be no support for super size deliveries from me and I would be extremely surpised if the DOM tries for this. Flats and packet still need to be sorted at the IPS stage, deliveries prepped, not really much time for super sized deliveries on a 5 day week is there?

I dont think many in my D.O will want the 4 day week due to the longer day meaning increased workload.

and if your boosses boss tells him to do it in the future.....then what, they won't be breaking a national agreement will they.

[dvbuk55]

And why do I keep attacking the agreement BECAUSE IT IS NOT FEASIBLE to quote the mights and maybes as FACT.

Take this for example which you have just quoted:

. THAT MAIL ARRIVALS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE TRANSFORMATION WORKPLAN AND SUPPORT AND ENABLE THE ATTENDANCE PATTERNS AND DUTY STRUCTURES CONTAINED IN THE FUNCTIONAL SECTIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT TO BE DELIVERED WITHIN THE WORKPLACE

. THAT THE OPERATIONAL TRANSFORMATION PROGRAMME AND ASSOCIATED WORKPLAN SUPPORT THE NATIONALLY PLANNED STAFFING MIX OF AROUND 75 PER CENT FULL TIME / 25 PER CENT PART TIME.

I think those give the union a strong committment as the workplan has to deliver those two objectives.

What is the planning mix AROUND 75/25% - will it be 73/27. 70/30, 74/26 or 60/40 - you don't know and no one else will either because it is a national figure - so exactly how are you going to enforce an AROUND figure? There is one objective easy to deliver because as I have said the words are the words and what the agreement will be implemented on - so an AROUND figure can be anything you want it to be.

Now would you like to try me on the job security wording and remember the words are the words and what the agreement will be implemented on - the words which I might add had to be agreeable to both parties - now was that AROUND a 50/50 split or something a little less equal.

[Big Daz]

Look at it like this there is going to be no support for super size deliveries from me and I would be extremely surpised if the DOM tries for this. Flats and packet still need to be sorted at the IPS stage, deliveries prepped, not really much time for super sized deliveries on a 5 day week is there?

I dont think many in my D.O will want the 4 day week due to the longer day meaning increased workload.

and if your boosses boss tells him to do it in the future.....then what, they won't be breaking a national agreement will they.

The DOM will tell them to stick it where the sun dont shine

The DOM fought for a better budget and got it.

If only a few more DOMs would be willing to argue their case rather than meekly saying yes sir. Perhaps UNITE might like to give more of their mbrs some balls.

[Big Daz]

Yes they would be breaking a national agreement

I do not consider super sized deliveries to be compatiable with the following parts, anybody with a half a brain cell knows that.

ensuring that everyone has a productive workload that is safe, fair, and manageable, supported by improved tools for the job.

Fatigue – Understanding, Identifying and tackling the causes of fatigue.


to ensure that workload is assessed and applied accurately, is fair and manageable, and indoor processes and outdoor delivery routes are optimised, efficient and achievable

A business where employee safety is the number one priority. Employees will be provided with modern, appropriate equipment and support and a realistic workload based on fair and transparent standards.

[dvbuk55]

Look at it like this there is going to be no support for super size deliveries from me and I would be extremely surpised if the DOM tries for this. Flats and packet still need to be sorted at the IPS stage, deliveries prepped, not really much time for super sized deliveries on a 5 day week is there?

I dont think many in my D.O will want the 4 day week due to the longer day meaning increased workload.

and if your boosses boss tells him to do it in the future.....then what, they won't be breaking a national agreement will they.

The DOM will tell them to stick it where the sun dont shine

The DOM fought for a better budget and got it.

If only a few more DOMs would be willing to argue their case rather than meekly saying yes sir. Perhaps UNITE might like to give more of their mbrs some balls.

Who knows unite may even get more members after this - and be losing one. There are some DOMS like yours few and far between and getting fewer.