Can we afford a No vote?

[slave]

Half these sorting machines they are supposed to have are fictional anyway. Those they have got cant read the letters in a postcode. (FACT).

Which machines? Whilst the CSMs have 'problems' I can say that when they work they are pretty good.. I heard similar flimsy stories prior to them being implemented in our office, yes there are some rejects from them but a fair bit does get sequenced which when prepping walks is a big help (especially when you don't know the walk).

if We Get A No vote It will give Big Dave, A Mandate To Go Back To Manegement And Come Up With A worthwile Aggrement,Not A Crock Of Shite

Don't make me laugh - they've had FOUR MONTHS to negotiate a worthwhile agreement and this is what they have come up with, do you honestly believe they are capable of doing anything else? (and if you answer yes I suggest taking a step back and thinking long and hard about it!!)
This is why I'm voting yes. Along with having given up the fight, I went out on strike in 2009 for this and for the 2007 agreement, I ain't going back out again for the sake of a few changes to the wording of the agreement that's on the table now.

Say yes and we will lose money, maybe a little, but one less hour a week suits me fine - I'm convinced RM won't be able to cope with all these 1hours disappearing so I'll still probably be doing a 40hour week claiming O/T and making up for any lost D2D money!
And a yes vote will not mean MORE s**t to deal with, we get huge amounts of that already courtesy of 2007. Are people so naive that they think we can go back to the year 1997 and regain them working practices? This is modern Britain dear people, a small handful a militant posties ain't gonna change the business models that we have in this country. And all I can say is god f***ing help you if this company ever gets privatised, you really are in for one hell of a big shock.

This does not have to mean strike action, as I agree that this could be counter productive, but we have so many other tools available to us, to make this irresponsible company change for the better.

Disagree. It will mean strike action because that's all some people understand, it took strike action to get RM to negotiate, previously they were doing what they always do and burying their heads in the sand.

[DirtyHarry]

I've been a member on this site for over 2 years, and it's been at sometimes a vital source of information, long may in continue.

My opinion, I don't think we can afford a No vote.

I hope you get the chance over the coming weeks to listen to and challenge a PEC/NEC member on why/how this agreement was reached and then come to a informed decision when you get to vote on the deal.

please don't be misled make your own mind up.

I'm voting NO, and so will any postal worker with at least an ounce of common sense.

[DirtyHarry]

Do you seriously think a No vote means everything stays as it is?

If it’s a no vote, we are finished {we are finished anyway when the Tories get in} it will be a question of how long you can stay out on strike for? How much money are you prepared to lose? they will walk all over you like before with ea, it will be the end of the union, and a much much quicker end to royal mail. I think a yes vote, like it or not, would still have the union in place when the BIG changes come in like, privatisation

Errr, and what would be the point in having the CWU in the workplace if, and when, privatisation comes in?
What would a private company do to our jobs that the CWU aren't letting RM do at the moment?

[chewi]

F*ck em last man standing

[studmuffin]

Studmuffin, thats exactly what you are doing, is waving the white flag, like most defeatist do. There is an alternative. Royal Mail cannot replace 150,000 experienced workers with 150,000 agency workers. We have the right to fight for decent terms and conditions of employment, decent pay, professional health and safety conditions, the right to be treated as human beings. When Royal Mail start thinking as a professional organisation and introduce what I have previously stated, they will have a workforce that will be the envy of any organisation, and a company fit for the future. They already have a workforce that has stood for endless crap in recent years and yet have still worked professionally against enormous odds. What will happen if we suddenly have a professional management, that respects us and in turn we can respect them. The results for Royal Mail could be massive. I say the fight must be taken to the sole shareholder, the government and lobby, lobby and lobby again, until they sit up and listen. With a forthcoming election, there is no better time. This does not have to mean strike action, as I agree that this could be counter productive, but we have so many other tools available to us, to make this irresponsible company change for the better.

I totally 110% agree with what is being said on this subject, and totally agree that more should be done, but do you honestly think that if it is a no vote, then the cwu would not call a strike???????? This is where the BIG problems start if they do. I do also think that there are different problems in different parts of royal mail. Most of the guys on here are dely guys, and I like yourselves would be bloody pissed off if I was losing d2d supplements and working harder for less money, and you’re absolutely correct that they cannot replace you all with agency.

In network it is a entirely different kind of problem, there are only approx 2000 lgv drivers, they CAN AND WILL REPLACE US if we go on strike, it will make absolutely no difference if we go on strike at ndc, because agency will run the show.
At ndc we face different problems, due to the Hitler style management we have there, we are still working their duties that were given to us, ' out of a hat’ 6 months later! Everywhere else are having resigns, why aren’t we???
When we get sold off, we will be first to go, because there are so few of us, and I cannot what strike action would acheive at ndc

[singingpostman]

I am interested in whether our two most vocal supporters of the deal thats phantomshare & lovejoy, could please tell me,
a) will you be taking a pay cut as a result of this deal like many posties will be,
and b) will your Saturday duties keep you away from taking part/watching sporting events that commence around 2pm to 3pm,(Mr Gibson has apparently today mentioned 2-30pm as a finishing time) again many posties certainly will have to change habits of a lifetime by this and are not happy and I don't blame them.

If the answers to both are yes, then I think theres little middle ground between a lot of us and you two. Most of us work to live and this new propsed agreement, does not really encourage that.

[the beautiful bd south]

I am from a Mail centre and will be voting Yes...
Why? because under the new agreement there is a NO compulsory redundancy clause..
Improved terms for excess travel payments..
A 3 year pay deal..
Shorter working week.
All of which could be lost if the agreement is re opened.
By the way before anybody says that it opens the door to mail centre closures well i fully expect my mail centre to be one of the offices to close but I know that if it does I will still be offered employment and in the current climate thats a massive thing.

I can understand the Delivery staff being against the deal because of the D2D payments but if you were to believe Royal Mail they are struggling to attract D2D business under the current arangements so a guarenteed payment is surely better than a payment that could be lost if competitors take all the D2D business from Royal Mail..and don't say that can't happen just look at the situation with DSA and how that has taken over from Mailsort.
The biggest disagreement with the delivery suppliment should be that it is paid pro rata??
But D2D into workload helps to guarentee full time jobs and with a target ratio of 75% to 25% can that be a bad thing?

As for working Longer Saturdays yes i can see why this is an issue..
The problem with Delivery staff (not all) is that some cut corners come in early use there own cars (thankfully to stop under the new agreement) rush round, skip breaks all to get done early and then complain when extra is added to there round yet still continue to cut corners..
The unions cry to delivery staff to do the job properly has fallen on deaf ears for years and ultimatly staff have suffered..


People will vote the way they want to vote.
Sadly some people will not vote at all.

[dvbuk55]

I am interested in whether our two most vocal supporters of the deal thats phantomshare & lovejoy, could please tell me,
a) will you be taking a pay cut as a result of this deal like many posties will be,
and b) will your Saturday duties keep you away from taking part/watching sporting events that commence around 2pm to 3pm,(Mr Gibson has apparently today mentioned 2-30pm as a finishing time) again many posties certainly will have to change habits of a lifetime by this and are not happy and I don't blame them.

If the answers to both are yes, then I think theres little middle ground between a lot of us and you two. Most of us work to live and this new propsed agreement, does not really encourage that.

Well in truth if this agreement goes ahead they won't be too concerned as they will have been integrated in the managerial structure of Royal Mail.

[creedscat]

I'll give you a clue in regards to my decision, starts with the letter N and ends with the letter O. As rolf harris used to say "Can you guess what it is yet?"

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I am from a Mail centre and will be voting Yes...
Why? because under the new agreement there is a NO compulsory redundancy clause..

Actually I looked over the whole agreement and all I could find was this

Royal Mail and CWU confirm that the overarching objective is to deliver the transformation without recourse to compulsory redundancies.

"Overarching objective ", is hardly saying NO compulsory redundancies at least to my way of thinking.

in my blog I say

So its not a promise merely an aim. Now which document does that remind me of. Perhaps the Labour Manifesto and Royal Mail Privatisation.

[Judgee]

I am from a Mail centre and will be voting Yes...
Why? because under the new agreement there is a NO compulsory redundancy clause..
Improved terms for excess travel payments..
A 3 year pay deal..
Shorter working week.
All of which could be lost if the agreement is re opened.
By the way before anybody says that it opens the door to mail centre closures well i fully expect my mail centre to be one of the offices to close but I know that if it does I will still be offered employment and in the current climate thats a massive thing.

I can understand the Delivery staff being against the deal because of the D2D payments but if you were to believe Royal Mail they are struggling to attract D2D business under the current arangements so a guarenteed payment is surely better than a payment that could be lost if competitors take all the D2D business from Royal Mail..and don't say that can't happen just look at the situation with DSA and how that has taken over from Mailsort.
The biggest disagreement with the delivery suppliment should be that it is paid pro rata??
But D2D into workload helps to guarentee full time jobs and with a target ratio of 75% to 25% can that be a bad thing?

As for working Longer Saturdays yes i can see why this is an issue..
The problem with Delivery staff (not all) is that some cut corners come in early use there own cars (thankfully to stop under the new agreement) rush round, skip breaks all to get done early and then complain when extra is added to there round yet still continue to cut corners..
The unions cry to delivery staff to do the job properly has fallen on deaf ears for years and ultimatly staff have suffered..


People will vote the way they want to vote.
Sadly some people will not vote at all.

Of course you will be voting yes as you are in processing, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose or so you think. Read the damn agreement again and I think you will find there is nothing definite about compulsory redundancies, all they say is they will try and do it through EVR. This is one thing you should consider, delivery staff cannot be replaced by machines they can't walk up paths.... processing staff CAN be replaced by machines and they will be first on the chopping block when EVR fails because most people who wanted it have left already. So go ahead vote yes and take your below inflation pay rise and bonus money you are already owed... don't forget to wave from the dole queue next year

[the beautiful bd south]

To be honest there are plenty of deluded people in my office who believe that the job they do is so hard/rubbish that they can't wait to get out..
I myself am a realist and know the job i do although not the most interesting in the world certainly isn't the hardest or most physical..
I also appreciate the terms and condition i enjoy have been hard faught for by the CWU over the years and I am willing to support them in there recomended Yes vote.
How many bad deals have the Union actually done over the years?

Can't actually remember saying that the bonus payments would influence my decision though???

Granted I take on board what TBT has pointed out that the agreement doesn't actually Guarentee No redundencies!

[opgpat]

How many bad deals have the Union actually done over the years?

lol well how about the last national one for example? That's not the point though, judge THIS agreement not CWU past performance. It's all in the Agreement, nothing else matters, and the wording gives RM carte blanche to do just as they please. Nothing is tied down, nothing can't be interpreted anyway RM wish. It's a farce for all areas of the buisness.

[DirtyHarry]

A no vote will mean all back out on strike and all out of pocket..
If you believe that a no vote will mean we simply carry on with things as they are now think again.
Royal mail has already equipment/ vans / machines on order ready for new ways of working etc...
I can't see them letting all that stand idle whilst the union tries to negotiate a new deal.

I can see If it is a no vote the only way forward would be to deal with each function seperately.
An ideal situation for Royal Mail Divide and conquer brigade..

If a NO vote is presented to the CWU/RM management team, what stops them from listening to the voice of their workforce, and sends them back to the negotiating table to thrash out something more palatable? Surely, not their sheer contempt for us???

[pcb]

And standing on the picket line with the Tories in charge is going to get you exactly what? Deliveries always with the rhetoric! Modernisation will happen get use to it! If you believe that D2D was going to just stay as it is dream on! Instead of losing it in the future it will be in your basic. And just explain to me which function brought in the WFA 2000? Deliveries because your basic went up! How quickly you forget!