PLEASE ANSWER THIS>>>>>>>>

[postghost]

And thats not mentioning 10 min grace relief!

You work to those guidlines on day one for example then at 9:30 you will be nowhere near ready, so more and likely you have lunch and carry on prepping, then all of a sudden the old favourate indoor working tool comes into play where your line manager will tell you that you should have been prepped up donkeys ago, so you ask to see the figures etc wasting ten more minutes or so then you demand a manual count, in which wastes even more time, then your line manager puts the actual figure into his little programe and takes into account your lunch, and the time you've wasted f***ing about counting mail to defend your argument that you don't have enough time in 1:20 to prep and tie up, all of a sudden you not expected to be tied up until 11:45am. Then more or likely there will be no f****r to take you out and your gaffer will try to get you into their private vehicle in which you reply you would like to see their registration and insurance documents, which they don't have. It's about 12:30 before you get and low and behold you only deliver 120 drops of mail (including d2d for the included in your workload purests) before you know it, it's 1:50pm and no one is there to convey you back and you go 40 mins over your time. Your told flexible, be flexible come in 40 mins late next day.

Day two forty minutes late, you get the picture, after a while you end up with a smaller walk and maybe night prep. But I still haven't got that time to do d2d in my delivery, I work all hours paid, everyday, somedays still don't have time to complete. Been working hard on getting d2d into my prep time, but NO agreement on indoor working tool which doesn't really take into account the prepping of these into delivery frame at 20% a day no matter what any of you think. So this deal WILL make MY life better in this way as it's is written in agreement that d2d will be intergrated into delivery prep, so if you all play the game by the rules, no matter how many you have to do in a week, weigh your bags, which decrease in weight limit after the first two, you will only do what you can in 8 or 10 hours.

Just my take on things, the above is only an example, we know each day is different. I will be voting YES, thankyou.

You raise some good points to be fair. That is why I find it strange that you contradict yourself specifically with the following:

you will only do what you can in 8 or 10 hours.

That is no different from just now. Why then shoot yourself in the foot and agree to getting more workload?

[midvillain]

talking to my rep today, he thinks that when weight is off the shoulder, and we are using trolleys, walks will have to be shorter, as the trolley slows you down, as anyone who has ever used one will know.

[pinstripe]

6am - 6:30am prep intra mech
6-30am - 8:10am IPS
8:10am - 9:30am prep delivery frame, including parcels, collect specials, prep door to doors if you insist, redirections, tie up, weigh bags, load van, collect late missorts etc
9-30am - 10:10am lunch
10:10am - 10:20am conveyed to delivery start
10:20am - 1:50pm Deliver walk
1:50pm -2pm convey back to delivery office or meet driver for him to collect stuff

job done

If you can prep 600+ drops, including 20% d2ds, redirections, weigh bags, collect specials, bag up in 1hr 20 then apologise.

Well today we had Council Tax Bills for every call. 100% call rate not including multi-occupancy flats. I prepped my whole walk, including 25% D2d's, re-directions, collected specials, bagged up, weighed my bags and loaded them onto the van (much the same as I do every single day), in 1 hour 35 minutes, but I'm still voting NO, because under this agreement I'll be protecting YOUR full time job by doing more work for less pay, endless D2D's for a fraction of what I get now, later starts and even later finishes, later Saturdays, uncapped delivery spans, and all that for people that look down on you because you're not as fast as they are, or because you work 2 hours a day less.

[mickthesplit]

These changes to walks etc will not be immediate so your prep times etc will still be relevant for some time. And all in all you only have to work your hours, regardless of whether majority is outdoor or in! Things are changing at a fast pace, but you only ever have to work your hours. You all have the chance to influence your working day and help to make life easier for yourself by using health and safety law etc.. No matter what changes are in this agreement, I will still enjoy my job and as it stands, I will be recieving a pay rise will work an hour less a week and also will be able to prep my door to doors into my frame in knowledge that I have time in my walk log to do so.

I also will enjoy going out in a little combi van with a buddy as you call it and work at their pace, or not, more like my pace eh! Park and loop here I come. Good times!

It's not about money for me, £400 is £400 for free as far as i'm concerned, I have worked my hours forever and a day and been paid for everyone off them for an hourly rate. Enjoy my round currently and will enjoy my new later hours and collections in the afternoon if thats what may be instore. But I will never be overworked or harrased into doing something that I cannot, and this deal means that I can do door to doors and be paid for them without having to fill in a silly form, in my work hours, regardless if I cut half off them off with the rest of the mail, or deliver them all in the hours provided of course. Or still be paid for them while on my £290 (after tax) holiday, Of course i'm a sap, muppet or mong, whatever else I have been called on here.

[feduppostie]

mick I don't mean to be rude but have you read the 'agreement'?

d2d will be part of your duty ( as they are now) you will have to deliver 20% a day of how ever many you are given

if you are not ready on time the new supa dupa indoor work tools will be used ( so far not explained fully but hey we don't need to know that before we vote do we?)

rumour has it the traffic figures for that day will be used to determine whether you are working to standard or not - if it is deemed you are not you will be monitored - if no improvement then who knows? conduct? dismissal?

you will have lost any early start allowance and individual payment for d2d - to be replaced by 20.60 a week ( a £14 a week loss for me if we only have 3 d2d a week and yes I have had 3 a week for the last 4 years) not to mention if on that day you happen to have day specific d2d ( meaning 100% have to be delivered that day)

your colleague who covers you on your rest day will receive a lesser amount for doing the same work as you

not to mention your pension may or not be secure we simply don't know yet

and FYI I come in bang on my time, I prep 20% d2d a day, I take my full rest break before I leave the office, I do not and will not carry overweight bags I weigh them and single packets if necessary, I go out on a van and come back by bus ( i don't drive so can't use a car not that I would anyway)

I work to my time everyday if I have to go over I book overtime or cut off - depending on childcare

I do not consider that there is much in this deal for me - a pay cut of £14 firstly

secondly I cannot swallow that my union would consider that my p/t colleagues deserve less money than me for doing the same job it just is not right

the £400 lump sum would have been payable in June anyway under colleagueshares as would the £1000 'bonus' for implementing change

The two £500 odd lump sums in the next 2 years we were told would be worth up to £5000 that one hell of a difference in total about £2500 worth of difference

so by my calculations everything I am being offered should have been paid to us anyway under the old colleague share plan so no real pay deal there

the wonderful 6.9% pay rise actually works out to less than 1.5% a year if you take into account the fact we had a pay freeze last year - under inflation so no real gain there

the agreement is way to vague in so many areas that could and probably would be exploited without proper clarification

I will be voting no to this deal

tell me again why I should be voting yes?

[dids620]

No I shall not be voting YES for £400, I shall be voting Yes for an improved and sustainable package. You all wine like f**k on here about not being able to do your deliveries on time so none of you should even be doing doors to doors in the first place because if you worked your f***ing hours and took your breaks, and weighed your bags and used the vans and correct safe drops you'd never have been paid for before so £20.60 would be a f***ing payrise and the door to doors would be integrated into you working day which would likey mean you'd be doing even less delivering and your line manager will not have a leg to stand on when you have to cut off, because this deal makes them very, very important!

cant you see the 400 quid is a bribe as the agreement is so crap. after sept you wil be delivering d2ds for rock all and when xmas comes around i cant see you shouting how good this deal is. how can delivering 6 d2ds a week mean doing less delivering? you will still be out the same amount of time!!! as for cutting off, i do not want to be cutting off on saturdays at 3 o clock. im sorry but i do have a life. i dont want to take my meal breaks, i would rather get in,get done and then get to the match.

[Lemuel]

You have got a good point Mick. Some yards in the morning are like Le Mans, wee flash cars stapped Fu of mail bags and undelivered D2D's. Meal relief at McDonalds on the duty. Run roon like an idiot and finish a full two minutes early. We call them "I'll do it for you Gaffer"

[mickthesplit]

You raise some good points to be fair. That is why I find it strange that you contradict yourself specifically with the following:

you will only do what you can in 8 or 10 hours.

That is no different from just now. Why then shoot yourself in the foot and agree to getting more workload?

How is it shooting myself in the foot? There may be more work to do, but I don't mind doing whatever work i'm given, as long as I have the time and tools to do it. For example lapsing. Monday and tuesday have been very light recently meaning on occasion I may be given some extra drops to do off of another delivery. Monday funny enough I had time and was back in office as normal, gaffer surprised he wasn't going out to do it in afternoon. Yet today it was still light but only just got mine done (without door to doors) and had to bring lapsing back. Haven't rushed about. enjoyed my days work, finished on time. When a specific time for example 9am -9:15am Prep door to doors is in my walk log, I'll be even happier, because 15 minutes off door to doors is what they will get. Hope I explained myself clearly.

Anyway, Your all so anti to this deal, let me know what you like putting on the table.

For example I would accept door to doors at 1.67p an item capped at 3 still with time for prepping items into delivery frame aproximate to each walk. BUT you will never get this, even if you say NO to this deal.

What else, pay rise linked to inflation? Could be bad or good. More than the 6.9% on offer now? Do you really belive that more will be offered? I personally do not think so.

Higher bonuses, or higher rate of pensionable pay? A company which is in reality 10 billion in debt. Royal Mail will never offer more than what they have. You may disagree, but Voting NO, you must have ideas of what Royal Mail is capable of offering us/you.

Repeated NO, NO, NO with no substance is all I hear and comment of your a sap do not convince me otherwise.

[postghost]

You raise some good points to be fair. That is why I find it strange that you contradict yourself specifically with the following:

you will only do what you can in 8 or 10 hours.

That is no different from just now. Why then shoot yourself in the foot and agree to getting more workload?

How is it shooting myself in the foot? There may be more work to do, but I don't mind doing whatever work i'm given, as long as I have the time and tools to do it.

Yet you complain you do not have enough time just now and seem to be aware of managerial tactics/

Anyway, Your all so anti to this deal, let me know what you like putting on the table.

For starters, no discrimination against part time staff.
I am all for embracing the increase in d2d's, however not at my expense and time by being "flexible"
I have shown commitment to the company in the past only to be rewarded with pro-rata insults.

A solution to the management culture within Royal Mail (This was a huge bone of contention for the union previously, yet seems to have been ignored - someone please correct me if I missed it)

[mickthesplit]

mick I don't mean to be rude but have you read the 'agreement'?

d2d will be part of your duty ( as they are now) you will have to deliver 20% a day of how ever many you are given

if you are not ready on time the new supa dupa indoor work tools will be used ( so far not explained fully but hey we don't need to know that before we vote do we?)

rumour has it the traffic figures for that day will be used to determine whether you are working to standard or not - if it is deemed you are not you will be monitored - if no improvement then who knows? conduct? dismissal?

you will have lost any early start allowance and individual payment for d2d - to be replaced by 20.60 a week ( a £14 a week loss for me if we only have 3 d2d a week and yes I have had 3 a week for the last 4 years) not to mention if on that day you happen to have day specific d2d ( meaning 100% have to be delivered that day)

your colleague who covers you on your rest day will receive a lesser amount for doing the same work as you

not to mention your pension may or not be secure we simply don't know yet

and FYI I come in bang on my time, I prep 20% d2d a day, I take my full rest break before I leave the office, I do not and will not carry overweight bags I weigh them and single packets if necessary, I go out on a van and come back by bus ( i don't drive so can't use a car not that I would anyway)

I work to my time everyday if I have to go over I book overtime or cut off - depending on childcare

I do not consider that there is much in this deal for me - a pay cut of £14 firstly

secondly I cannot swallow that my union would consider that my p/t colleagues deserve less money than me for doing the same job it just is not right

the £400 lump sum would have been payable in June anyway under colleagueshares as would the £1000 'bonus' for implementing change

The two £500 odd lump sums in the next 2 years we were told would be worth up to £5000 that one hell of a difference in total about £2500 worth of difference

so by my calculations everything I am being offered should have been paid to us anyway under the old colleague share plan so no real pay deal there

the wonderful 6.9% pay rise actually works out to less than 1.5% a year if you take into account the fact we had a pay freeze last year - under inflation so no real gain there

the agreement is way to vague in so many areas that could and probably would be exploited without proper clarification

I will be voting no to this deal

tell me again why I should be voting yes?

I like this post and yes I have read the deal and the indoor working tool is already in action and I have already been subject to it, and it actually worked in my favour. Let's no be naive, Unions have historically always looked after the top guys who have given to a service, regardless of what they are capable of giving present, so it should not be a suprise that part timers are looked after in an inferior manner (your opinion), i'm a firm believer in pro rata mind, just ask my creditors.

As to doors to doors already being in your duty time, try taking on the indoor working tool and see what your wife/husband/dog thinks when you have been sent a letter saying you will not get paid for yesterdays work, because your prep took too long, because it doesn't take into account collecting mail from IPS frames, door to door prepping, having a piss, redirections...... Oh no sorry it does because it's based on 12 items a minute and not 24 or whatever it is when your gaffer stands behind you for a minute and counts your prep rate. Anyway that 12 a minute takes into account (unagreed standard but one that is being enforced) redirections, collecting specials, taking a slash, dealing with colleaque queries, oh prepping you duty etc, oh yeah door to doors? lol bear with me i'm getting there.

example my walk has 728 drops. On a specific day I had 1269 items of mail including packets, add to this 20% door to door which means 437 leaflets need to be prepped into my frame in 30 mins pre ips and 1 hour 20 mins post ips equals 1706 items in 1 hr 50. The indoor working tool allows me 1320 items and I believe the actual figure is 11.6 a min or something. Take to door to doors away, and I have time.

Anyway with these walk sequencing machines I may have enough time to prep these bad boys in.

[postghost]

Anyway with these walk sequencing machines I may have enough time to prep these bad boys in.

The keyword being "may"

Why vote yes on what "may" happen according to RM?

I want a sure thing and will say no until we get it.

[mickthesplit]

It doesn't matter if you say yes or no as in three years time it will all happen again then the part time full time ratio will 50-50 etc... change change change, take the little snippets while you can.

[numan]

I shall be voting YES to this agreement! An immediate lump sum of £400 would be very handy for me to treat my family to a holiday on the coast somewhere. Then a pay rise which will increase over 3 years and an increased supplement of £20.60 a week. Further lump sums are to be had too and later start times, and best of all private cars should decline on deliveries.

With the door to doors being made an integral part of my duty, my walk will get even smaller than it is now, they don't call me "mick the split" because I do docket! I have worked very hard to put myself in a position of good leverage within the office at which I work and this agreement will suit me down to the ground.

The only bad thing I can see about it is my favourate spot at the pool table may be under threat now at lunch time.

That's interesting considering you're still in the dark as to how long your new delivery span is going to be.

[BELIAL]

No I shall not be voting YES for £400, I shall be voting Yes for an improved and sustainable package. You all wine like f**k on here about not being able to do your deliveries on time so none of you should even be doing doors to doors in the first place because if you worked your f***ing hours and took your breaks, and weighed your bags and used the vans and correct safe drops you'd never have been paid for before so £20.60 would be a f***ing payrise and the door to doors would be integrated into you working day which would likey mean you'd be doing even less delivering and your line manager will not have a leg to stand on when you have to cut off, because this deal makes them very, very important!

You get the £400 even if you vote no it is your colleague share money , can't you read?

[bunkerland]

I shall be voting YES to this agreement! An immediate lump sum of £400 would be very handy for me to treat my family to a holiday on the coast somewhere. Then a pay rise which will increase over 3 years and an increased supplement of £20.60 a week. Further lump sums are to be had too and later start times, and best of all private cars should decline on deliveries.

With the door to doors being made an integral part of my duty, my walk will get even smaller than it is now, they don't call me "mick the split" because I do docket! I have worked very hard to put myself in a position of good leverage within the office at which I work and this agreement will suit me down to the ground.

The only bad thing I can see about it is my favourate spot at the pool table may be under threat now at lunch time.

I agree the £400 will be nice for all

Yes it's always nice to get your own money given back to you!