A question especially for Lovejoy or The Truth!

[fishtank]

Are you telling me 92% of staff will stay at a 2pm finishing time Lovejoy.
So RM have negotiated a change to the last letter time and don't intend to use it.

The last letter time is currently 2pm......... tens of thousands of members don't work to that time. The arrival pattern is the driver. It is also worth noting that no changes will be made to start/finish times until your walk sequencing revision which in some cases is 2013

Just the facts Lovejoy please.
Will over 90% of delivery staff be allowed to finish at 2pm Mon-Sat?

[lovejoy]

Very interesting reading lovejoy. I generally agree with the points you have made although I do still have some concerns regarding the agreement.
One of them is no cap on delivery spans. I understand that they are going to be agreed locally, but what is to stop managers abusing the no span limit when there is high sickness, work left over from another day etc.. All we would have is some kind of trust that managers wouldn't treat posties like that and send them out early with an extra 2 hours delivery plus their 4 and half hour duty? We all know how some people can act under pressure. Surely there has to be some kind of built in assurance that no-one will be expected to do more than say 5 hours 30 minutes or something?

D2D was supposed to be built into workload before, but in reality never really happened. They really have made a blunder regarding D2D. All payments should have ceased and they should have ringfenced the money into a basic payrise. That would have sent out a much clearer message about D2D being a part of normal mail. With it still being a separate payment, managers will still think that the old methods of allowing posties to absorb will work, because they will be too scared to cut off etc etc...
They have made no promises about automating D2D. It therefore has me thinking, how will they adjust the hours for prep when one week we get 4 D2D, then the next week we get 8 or 9? Also delivering 8 or 9 takes a little longer than 4 lots.

I want to agree to this deal, but there is more to this than just trusting RM. You are right in saying that D2D into workload will cost RM X amount of money and this has me thinking what the catch is, especially in the short term whilst D2D have not been increased?

Surely it wouldn't be that hard, or costly, to settle these few points.....?

On delivery spans we need the limit lifted more than RM...... If we keep it at 3.5 then we are part-timing the industry.

The decisions on spans will be made during the preference exercise on revision process - the key to lifting spans are the new delivery methods which will take mail off the shoulder.

I agree about getting the supplement into basic pay - that is the ultimate aim. The reason RM wouldn't do it this time was due to the fact that it would have increased pensions costs at a time when that situation is up in the air.

I take your point about getting more contracts etc but in the future it will just be more mail and treated in the same fashion - cut off / claimed etc. On top of this each new revision will include an average of the previous periods d2d so if the product grows your walk will become smaller

[Member 34]

WORKRATES

Perhaps at the heart of the dispute - Now all revision tools and standards will be agreed. Workshops will then take place to train all reps and managers. New national standard sheets will be produced so that every member is able to understand what is expected of them. I admit it is not ideal that these standards are unfinished but the briefing was told that they will be going out to branches very soon - For those of you who think that RM will just ignore this section - they can't because they are still embargoed by the ACAS nothing is agreed until everything is agreed position.

Thanks for the info Lovejoy.

Can you clarify whether these agreed workrates will be published before or after we get to vote on the agreement?

[lovejoy]

Are you telling me 92% of staff will stay at a 2pm finishing time Lovejoy.
So RM have negotiated a change to the last letter time and don't intend to use it.

The last letter time is currently 2pm......... tens of thousands of members don't work to that time. The arrival pattern is the driver. It is also worth noting that no changes will be made to start/finish times until your walk sequencing revision which in some cases is 2013

Just the facts Lovejoy please.
Will over 90% of delivery staff be allowed to finish at 2pm Mon-Sat?

Read the agreement

[lovejoy]

WORKRATES

Perhaps at the heart of the dispute - Now all revision tools and standards will be agreed. Workshops will then take place to train all reps and managers. New national standard sheets will be produced so that every member is able to understand what is expected of them. I admit it is not ideal that these standards are unfinished but the briefing was told that they will be going out to branches very soon - For those of you who think that RM will just ignore this section - they can't because they are still embargoed by the ACAS nothing is agreed until everything is agreed position.

Thanks for the info Lovejoy.

Can you clarify whether these agreed workrates will be published before or after we get to vote on the agreement?

From what i understand they will be sent to branches who should then distribute them on........ no doubt they'll end up on here

[LJR]

You have gained LOADS you ungrateful dogs! This agreement means for us!
1/ A CWU divided into THREE! MCs, RDC and deliveries!
2/ A further divide of PTs and FTs!
3/ Giving RM what they have always wanted in FREE D2Ds imposed on the post people of the UK uncapped and not pensionable!
4/ RM the right to close whatever MCs and RDCs they want and when they want!
5/ Three years of more pay cuts on top of the five years they have already given you!
6/ RM the right to give you money you have already earnt as a cash bribe!
7/ You the members that have NO CWU representation in your office have the right to be done over by local management as they choose!
8/ If you dont like the small print? TOUGH! as with 2007 P&M you voted so PAY the price!
9/ You have the right to go through the paperwork that took CWU and RM over Four months to con you with and you will be given far less than a month to decide whats right for you!
10/ If you dont like it f*ck off because HQ think they have done enough to bribe the stupid fools that are members and see NO further than a grand!
There we go you ungrateful dogs i hope you have seen the error of your ways and vote YES!

[dvbuk55]

Thankyou lovejoy for the explanation of the agreement.We have to take in the whole thing of what the union has agreed ie no compulsory redundancies which might have been the case without putting D2D into work load.I dont like the thought of loosing the early shift and seperate D2D payment but can see some thinking behind it.

Crap! There is STILL no agreement against compulsory redundancy for gods sake - it says it will try to avoid it - AND THAT ISN'T A NO REDUNDANCY CLAUSE - read the agreement yourself, do not follow false prophets - wake up and smell the coffee.

[lovejoy]

Well I'd take anything Lovejoy pimped with a pinch of salt - he advocated the 2007 deal with all its pomp and ceremony - ACAS - absolute bullshit, they are not going to be involved once paper is signed, nor should they be, we pay this union to deal with agreements and to see that they are adhered to. So what exactly are ACAS going to do, smack legs, initiate penalties, neither! they will do FA. As for the revision workshops - will they be before or after the deal is agreed. There are some on here who stand to gain more from advocating the deal than telling the truth.

I was asked for and pestered for my opinion and I gave it - end of story

[lovejoy]

Thankyou lovejoy for the explanation of the agreement.We have to take in the whole thing of what the union has agreed ie no compulsory redundancies which might have been the case without putting D2D into work load.I dont like the thought of loosing the early shift and seperate D2D payment but can see some thinking behind it.

Crap! There is STILL no agreement against compulsory redundancy for gods sake - it says it will try to avoid it - AND THAT ISN'T A NO REDUNDANCY CLAUSE - read the agreement yourself, do not follow false prophets - wake up and smell the coffee.

I think you are the one who needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Whislt other Unions are losing members to basic redundancy terms this union have improved the MTSF by lifting the 2 year cap and selection by seniority - the right way.

[dvbuk55]

You have gained LOADS you ungrateful dogs! This agreement means for us!
1/ A CWU divided into THREE! MCs, RDC and deliveries!
2/ A further divide of PTs and FTs!
3/ Giving RM what they have always wanted in FREE D2Ds imposed on the post people of the UK uncapped and not pensionable!
4/ RM the right to close whatever MCs and RDCs they want and when they want!
5/ Three years of more pay cuts on top of the five years they have already given you!
6/ RM the right to give you money you have already earnt as a cash bribe!
7/ You the members that have NO CWU representation in your office have the right to be done over by local management as they choose!
8/ If you dont like the small print? TOUGH! as with 2007 P&M you voted so PAY the price!
9/ You have the right to go through the paperwork that took CWU and RM over Four months to con you with and you will be given far less than a month to decide whats right for you!
10/ If you dont like it f*ck off because HQ think they have done enough to bribe the stupid fools that are members and see NO further than a grand!
There we go you ungrateful dogs i hope you have seen the error of your ways and vote YES!

Well you have certainly persuaded me with your honesty - I will now vote

[coxie]

face it we will all be a bunch of glorified leaflet deliverers with just the odd few letters and packets in the middle.

[Member 34]

From what i understand they will be sent to branches who should then distribute them on........ no doubt they'll end up on here

But before or after the agreement is voted on?

For many it's a deal breaker!

Despite your earlier post about never having an agreement if we don't trust RM, I have seen how they treat people and if anything is left to trust, I for one will be voting no.

[lovejoy]

face it we will all be a bunch of glorified leaflet deliverers with just the odd few letters and packets in the middle.

But the best paid leaflet delivers in the UK .....

[lovejoy]

From what i understand they will be sent to branches who should then distribute them on........ no doubt they'll end up on here

But before or after the agreement is voted on?

For many it's a deal breaker!

Despite your earlier post about never having an agreement if we don't trust RM, I have seen how they treat people and if anything is left to trust, I for one will be voting no.

Yes the info will be out before the agreement goes to vote

[dvbuk55]

Thankyou lovejoy for the explanation of the agreement.We have to take in the whole thing of what the union has agreed ie no compulsory redundancies which might have been the case without putting D2D into work load.I dont like the thought of loosing the early shift and seperate D2D payment but can see some thinking behind it.

Crap! There is STILL no agreement against compulsory redundancy for gods sake - it says it will try to avoid it - AND THAT ISN'T A NO REDUNDANCY CLAUSE - read the agreement yourself, do not follow false prophets - wake up and smell the coffee.

I think you are the one who needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Whislt other Unions are losing members to basic redundancy terms this union have improved the MTSF by lifting the 2 year cap and selection by seniority - the right way.

Lovejoy - listen to yourself! lifting the cap on redundancy and selection by seniority - that's certainly protecting jobs right enough - just turf the old uns out - but answer the point for a change - IS THERE OR IS THERE NOT A NO REDUNDANCY CLAUSE OR IS IT A "TRYING TO AVOID COMPULSORY REDUNDANCY" - there is also the question of the movement of personnel from point A to point B, which for some will give them no option but to leave for which of course there will be handsome recompense BUT NO JOB.