Report from Bournemouth briefing

[Big Daz]

My understanding is this info will be available before we vote, the leak on RMC forced HQ to go live before they were ready. What we ahve is the main element, with just a few more bits to come. If the ballot goes out before they are done and with the reps and members I would be disappointed. I shall have faith for the time being.

CWU and RML were exchanging draft documents, the leak was one of those draft documents, one assumes the reason for the leak was that sombody wanted to gives a flavour of what was going on but forgot to explain this when doing the leak.

[Tamsky]

Despite my reservation on parts of the Agreement I do have faith in the negotiating skills of the Outdoor team and as I said Bob Gibson made a good case at the briefing. Will wait for the info.

A big problem remains on D2D - the majority of members I represent earn around £30 on 3 D2D a week. Most have Early shift payments (grandfather) rights of £12. = £42 weekly. To give this up for £20.60, even over 52 weeks is a big ask.

[dvbuk55]

Despite my reservation on parts of the Agreement I do have faith in the negotiating skills of the Outdoor team and as I said Bob Gibson made a good case at the briefing. Will wait for the info.

A big problem remains on D2D - the majority of members I represent earn around £30 on 3 D2D a week. Most have Early shift payments (grandfather) rights of £12. = £42 weekly. To give this up for £20.60, even over 52 weeks is a big ask.

I'm just glad they weren't negotiating in 1939 otherwise it would have been "Ich bin ein Englander"

[Big Daz]

But the payrises counter act it. Sadly the 2010 payrise will not be enough for some members to counter act. If the full 6.9 was paid up front and adjusted upwards for the compound effect they wouldnt be worse off.

[drb]

I don't think that the negotiating team set out to stuff us,(as some have said). They were faced with a company/service that is technically insolvent.The Way Forward & The Single Delivery Agreement & Pay & Mod were not designed for a massive pension deficit.Simple. I suppose they would have to do what any union is about...saving and maintaining full time work.

I have done a few Employment Tribunal Cases for other people not connected with Royal Mail in the last year. Racism,bullying,unfair compulsary redundancies.It is REALLY S**t out there.No one...and I mean No One has had any sort of pay rise or extra payments in the last 4 years. Yes I know management have been raking in the bonuses,but that is not just us,it is happening in the private sector too.Hence whoever wins the next election is certainly not having a majority in the house of commons.

[numan]

thanks tamsky for posting this. Like most people on this site i am against this agreement, but having just read this info from bournmouth im now really confussed as to how im going to vote. It does seem quite obvious to me, that this is really all about the pension deficit.

Lets not get carried away here, it was the Union who decoupled the pension from the 2007 agreement played as a master stroke they said and I quote "we have managed to decouple the pension from this agreement" - WHY - because they knew it would kill the yes vote - lo and behold 2 years later they are using the same card in reverse to GET a yes vote. Is there no end to the duplicity this leadership will not stoop to and still expect the membership to support them - well the obvious answer is NO.

As for the pension deficit? It is larger now than it was 3 years ago and getting worse and the union have had two years at least to get a closure on the issue by cosying up to the labour government - they now would have us believe that if we agree the pension will be sorted in TWO MONTHS.................... wow was that a pound of bacon flying by?

There is no hope what so ever of this government taking on the deficit without a modernisation deal, that is solid fact.
If you feel that has led to the powers that be getting a less than viable set of proposals then so be it.

2007 pension decoupling was voted in by the membership of their own free will, as it was not a majority of ballot papers despatched being returned yes. I belive the mandate was very weak.

Decoupling the pension was just union spin, anybody who read through the 2007 agreement thoroughly could clearly see that changes to the pension scheme were still linked to the deal. When I asked a PEC member why he'd personally agreed to the deal when it meant our pensions were going to be smashed, he replied "don't worry, there's no way the union will let this happen, I promise you'll get a separate vote for I.A. over the pension changes.

[fishtank]

But the payrises counter act it. Sadly the 2010 payrise will not be enough for some members to counter act. If the full 6.9 was paid up front and adjusted upwards for the compound effect they wouldnt be worse off.

Daz,the largest slice of that 6.9% payrise is still open to change as is the delivery supplement after 2012.
There are far more flaws in this agreement than simply pay and D2D.
There are far too many gaps and grey areas and the language tends towards appeasement rather than agreement.
It states "This agreement reaffirms the 2007 Pay and Modernisation Agreement, concludes all outstanding Phase 4 negotiations," but there is no mention of absorbtion,lapsing or flexibility which have caused members so much grief over the last two years.
Do you think they have gone away? What of banking hours?
I think even you would admit that your office has been sheltered from most of the abuses of the last two years but that will change.
I hope your members are ready for it.

[drb]

Our workload,(and Tuesdays are SO embarasingly light),and our members allows us to absorb...because we can.Work all your hours.No one listens...increase your workload and use the D2D in your traffic figures.Take the cars away and meal relief compulsary. Engage once a month on performane agreements,(area). Learn the Pegasus system,(your rep).

[fishtank]

Our workload,(and Tuesdays are SO embarasingly light),and our members allows us to absorb...because we can.Work all your hours.No one listens...increase your workload and use the D2D in your traffic figures.Take the cars away and meal relief compulsary. Engage once a month on performane agreements,(area). Learn the Pegasus system,(your rep).

And you will still be absorbing.
BTW you cannot make meal relief compulsory just as you will never stop them coming in early.

[realmichael]

what about the geo route side of things -how much time will be given for attendence calls,replenishment,toilet breaks,human contact etc.etc.

will we find out before a vote? or is it a secret

[drb]

OK,here is what we have at the moment...

An insolvent comany,a deal with a pay rise,(I didn't strike for money by the way). All Pegasus input by your rep,(call rate/Walk Speed/etc).
No Cars
Evidence of change to show the goverment that we have kept our part of the bargain...now your turn.

Now you say that "They won't listen".Is it any wonder we are where we are.......

I,m not selling the deal.It's just the service is broke...simple as that.The money it had it HAS spent on new technology.It HAS to use it. On that basis I would rather be a part of it's inception/introduction then not.

There is nowhere or no-one in the world today that is going to give someone 1.2 Billion then another 10 billion for nothing. I have a problem with the people that run this service in terms of trust.That will remain to be seen.That feeling was in the Way Forward,not just this deal.

[Big Daz]

Sheltered?

Please explain fishtank.

We have absorbtion which whilst doable is HATED as that is work which was once overtime and our two fixed term 30 hour contracts bods have been offered further contracts but at a different office within the same cluster. That means the FT to PT ratio goes up. You never know I might go back FT


We have a revision comin up in a few months, I assume that will be done with the new workrates and standards that are currently being developed which we are told by CWU will be fair and realistic.

Sequenced mail revision due next year

If FT are not leaving or being sacked how can we fill the DO with PT like some D.O's seem to be?

[fishtank]

OK,here is what we have at the moment...

An insolvent comany,a deal with a pay rise,(I didn't strike for money by the way). All Pegasus input by your rep,(call rate/Walk Speed/etc).
No Cars
Evidence of change to show the goverment that we have kept our part of the bargain...now your turn.

Now you say that "They won't listen".Is it any wonder we are where we are.......

I,m not selling the deal.It's just the service is broke...simple as that.The money it had it HAS spent on new technology.It HAS to use it. On that basis I would rather be a part of it's inception/introduction then not.

There is nowhere or no-one in the world today that is going to give someone 1.2 Billion then another 10 billion for nothing. I have a problem with the people that run this service in terms of trust.That will remain to be seen.That feeling was in the Way Forward,not just this deal.

Yes but wouldn't it be much easier with an agreement that had real concrete statements of intent rather than maybe,could be and if this happens.

[Tamsky]

Is it not part of the strategy that absorbtion becomes less likely if D2D into workload. As I see it 6 D2D a week at 100% call rate each day reduces ability to absorb. Combined with shorter working week and agreed workrates and longer spans, lapsing should disappear and members get back to settled duties.

At the briefing Bob Gibson restated the CWU objective was 35 hr week and £400 basic pay.

[dvbuk55]

Sheltered?

Please explain fishtank.

We have absorbtion which whilst doable is HATED as that is work which was once overtime and our two fixed term 30 hour contracts bods have been offered further contracts but at a different office within the same cluster. That means the FT to PT ratio goes up. You never know I might go back FT


We have a revision comin up in a few months, I assume that will be done with the new workrates and standards that are currently being developed which we are told by CWU will be fair and realistic.

Sequenced mail revision due next year

If FT are not leaving or being sacked how can we fill the DO with PT like some D.O's seem to be?

How many would take EVR? How many will be moved to equalise the workforce to the workload. You assume it will be done with the new workrates and standards which have not yet been set OR agreed and have been told they will be fair and realistic - nothing about this deal is fair or realistic.