Door 2 door exposing the myths !!

[apple]

there is mention in the agreement of d2ds sent out on specific days sat included, or at least have scope to look at it, so if they are to do that then we need 100% call rate

i'm voting no because i don't want a pay cut, i also would like the proof of these figures, as it seems the CWU has got quite adept at spinning a story

[singingpostman]

Lets start with the facts there will be some losers.

However lets also gets some facts on the table the average number of door to door across the UK is 2.1. and the average payment on door 2 door is £12.39.

79753 people recieve money from door to door in delivery ranging from the door to door barons who do whole offices to indivuduals who do a small amount of door to door. 27000 who work in deliveries do not.

Door has reduced in Royal Mail in 2008 the average was 2.44 and the monies paid out was £181 600 less than last year.

Royal Mail in a growing market is losing its share. Anyone who thinks that Royal Mail are going to contiue to pay door to door out and keep the cap must be living in a dreamword.

Royal Mail turned down £40 millon in contracts due to the cap of 3 in some areas. In addition in the lowest 20 postcodes quality wise the contracts have dried up altogether.

In addition lets not hide from the fact that automation of door to door will ( no if ) take place , you will then get the door to door in a slieve and will then get paid for just one item or the number you do. Secondly a lot of local papers are going out of business and the unadrressed market are currently going to mailing houses who put 5 or 6 items in an envolope and post it via Royal Mail and you dont get paid at all.

Plus probably most important other arguement is that door to door items enable you to have a job in the future. As once it is in workload you count that traffic in your overall office traffic figure. Geo route will be adjusted to reflect that as will the standards.

If you have 500 delivery points and currently an 85% call rate if you then include door to door into workload then your call rate will go up to 88% and therefore will mean that you will have 15 more delivery points plus 30 mins including the prep.

If you have 500 delivery points and 75 % call rate and you then include d2d into your workload your call rate will go up to 80% and with the prep needed appoxmately 50 mins extra.

Now in regards to the pro rata issue , yes this is contenious issue there is not doubt about that. If the removal of the pro rata was used the supplement will go down to £18 for everyone. However in addition if you gave every part timer the full money well some only work on a Saturday and some work only on Fridays and Saturdays. Not every part timer works on delivery either. Plus part timers get a pay rise worth an extra 2.5 % on the fact the shorter working week comes in.

I dont expect to change peoples minds but the fact is that this supplement will grow from year 2 with every pay rise and is guartneed not based on whether door to door contracts. Its paid 52 weeks per year and when your on leave and sickleave and most importantly will safeguard full time jobs.

If you dont have door to door in workload then you can forget about 75% full time jobs as the industry will be part time. People may complain about some loss of money now but if you dont have the workload needed to protect jobs then you will not have a wage as there will not be the jobs.

Fact or yet more CWU bulls5it ?

I cant actually see advertisers being willing to agree to this, so sorry my money is on yet more of the brown smelly stuff.

[Just_My_Opinion]

I've quoted the relevant parts of your post Dingo.

there will be some losers.

Is it fair on the people who pay their union fees like everyone else but could end up being a loser as you put it?

Surely the job of the union is a fair deal for all?

Or does the union take money from all it's members but only fight for some of them?

[kendo1]

Quote from Dingo
"if you have 500 delivery points and currently an 85% call rate if you then include door to door into workload then your call rate will go up to 88% and therefore will mean that you will have 15 more delivery points plus 30 mins including the prep.

If you have 500 delivery points and 75 % call rate and you then include d2d into your workload your call rate will go up to 80% and with the prep needed appoxmately 50 mins extra."

Please help me out here I am confused.
If you have D2D every day including Saturdays ,then you have to deliver oversize packets,and specials etc surley your call rate is 100% or should be based on
100% and any days you do not have D2D you would do absorbstion of another walk in the office.

So if the work load has to be managable the walks cannot be made any biger ,as to allow the extra time of a 100% call rate and delivery of all the oversize wich we know is a growing market

[fishtank]

I did wonder when the selling would start.
The problem is nobody is buying.
I take it by the tone of your post dingo,the London senior reps are up for this deal.
There will be some losers IF this deal is accepted.
But the biggest losers will be based in Wimbledon.
What next? Later Saturdays exposing the myths!!!!!! I can't wait.

[Martin Walsh]

If you have 500 delivery points and currently an 85% call rate if you then include door to door into workload then your call rate will go up to 88% .

How did you work that out?

Because they're still wanting us to take a percentage daily, the 100% call rate was a fantasy.

So you get 8 lots of d2d and dont go to every house every day ? How the hell do you do them then ? Take 8 lots mon & tue and then go to every house wed.thu,fri with the post anyway ?? Or do you do your d2d on wed/thu/fri and leave the office at 1230 , make up 9 extra bags, and bring 6 rows back coz your finish time is 1:30

either way it cant be done ! Prepping the feckers is a mare when youve 3 lots - imagine 8 or 9 ?? And remember boys, you cant put them inside each other, you must do them seperately, meaning less time on the streets

PS for what its worth, ive had 3 lots every week for 8 years !! And I get £27.50, and £12.50 early shift, thats £40.00 - now im gona get £20.60 and an EXTRA 5-6 lots of D2D to boot !! I think you know what me and many like me are voting !!

This figure on call rates is based on the current levels on door to door which is 2.1 if the product increases then it will mean more hours left in your office. In regards to the plastic sleeves they are used in Holland and Germany and Sweden where the actual door 2 doors are designed to come out of the sleeve when you post them. With regards to 100% call rate well the aim is that you do 20% of your total door to door on each day so thats 20% of your total items. Now of course if door 2 door grows then the call rate will grow.

[Yahoorsur]

If you have 500 delivery points and currently an 85% call rate if you then include door to door into workload then your call rate will go up to 88% .

How did you work that out?

Because they're still wanting us to take a percentage daily, the 100% call rate was a fantasy.

Hence my question on another thread ,'(which was worded badly I admit) Q:'can Pegusus be set at 100%?

A.'Of course it can'.



My new question is
'Do you honestly think they will set the call rate at 100%' ?:crazy:

[Martin Walsh]

I did wonder when the selling would start.
The problem is nobody is buying.
I take it by the tone of your post dingo,the London senior reps are up for this deal.
There will be some losers IF this deal is accepted.
But the biggest losers will be based in Wimbledon.
What next? Later Saturdays exposing the myths!!!!!! I can't wait.

No fishtank London will make its decision soon and we made our postion clear at the Briefing but on door 2 door we are all united that full time jobs should be protected.

[andy2007]

If the slieve thing is to be believed, then it`ll be the MAIL CENTRE STAFF sorting that prep part out !! Maybe they might want to adjust there votes !!

I'd have thought that the WBC would end up doing that part, but I could be wrong.

[REDLETTER]

I did wonder when the selling would start.
The problem is nobody is buying.
I take it by the tone of your post dingo,the London senior reps are up for this deal.
There will be some losers IF this deal is accepted.
But the biggest losers will be based in Wimbledon.
What next? Later Saturdays exposing the myths!!!!!! I can't wait.

I think some of the senior reps will be the losers............... if they promote a yes vote, then it goes the other way, they lose face and credibility.......and if they thought the deal should be a no vote but they didn't make more noise in Bournemouth some members might slighty miffed about that too!

[numan]

If you have 500 delivery points and currently an 85% call rate if you then include door to door into workload then your call rate will go up to 88% .

How did you work that out?

Because they're still wanting us to take a percentage daily, the 100% call rate was a fantasy.

So you get 8 lots of d2d and dont go to every house every day ? How the hell do you do them then ? Take 8 lots mon & tue and then go to every house wed.thu,fri with the post anyway ?? Or do you do your d2d on wed/thu/fri and leave the office at 1230 , make up 9 extra bags, and bring 6 rows back coz your finish time is 1:30

either way it cant be done ! Prepping the feckers is a mare when youve 3 lots - imagine 8 or 9 ?? And remember boys, you cant put them inside each other, you must do them seperately, meaning less time on the streets

PS for what its worth, ive had 3 lots every week for 8 years !! And I get £27.50, and £12.50 early shift, thats £40.00 - now im gona get £20.60 and an EXTRA 5-6 lots of D2D to boot !! I think you know what me and many like me are voting !!

This figure on call rates is based on the current levels on door to door which is 2.1 if the product increases then it will mean more hours left in your office. In regards to the plastic sleeves they are used in Holland and Germany and Sweden where the actual door 2 doors are designed to come out of the sleeve when you post them. With regards to 100% call rate well the aim is that you do 20% of your total door to door on each day so thats 20% of your total items. Now of course if door 2 door grows then the call rate will grow.

Can you please explain to me how the call rate will ever grow if we're to deliver only 20% daily?

[POSTMAN]

I dont expect to change peoples minds but the fact is that this supplement will grow from year 2 with every pay rise and is guartneed not based on whether door to door contracts.

Confirm this then,according to what you are saying,we could possibly have the 20.60 supplement grow to say 30-40 ect in years to come?
Is this EVERY SINGLE pay rise we get?Is it guaranteed to go up with each pay rise.

Lets just look at London Weighting!!

[wakkono]

Come to our office in s wales and you will see we dont need d2d to survive,we are busy enough as it is Nothing in this deal is clear cut,its all too vague just like the 2007 agreement. I wonder what the cwu has been doing for the last few months, we had royal mail by the bollocks and this is what we end up with....it really is unbelievable!
As for admiting there will be some loosers....if there is just 1 member who will loose then in my opinion the union should back away from it..lots of guys in our office have been paying 3 quid a week and the union to which they have paid to is recomending a pay cut..some union huh?


this deal stinks and all who recomend it do as well in my opinion, the delivery guys are out in all conditions and have the hardest jobs in the business and they are getting shafted!

undefined delivery time spans,,,,who the f**k could of agreed to that????????

year 3 payrise rm have a get out clause.can you honestly say the business will honour this??

hope this comes back a big fat NO

[Broxi51]

IF the D2D's are coming all made up in a sleeve then that means there is even more injustice for the PTers. They deliver them as do we FTers and yet they are expected to say Thank you for only getting £10

If I delivered 400 of them and a PTer delivered 200 then fair enough but it doesnt work that way and yet the PTers, the ones who are struggling the most because they are on less hours, get paid 50% less. F*cking P*sh Union this who throw the PTers to the wolves

If this is accepted then I will be leaving the union because I couldnt be in a union who cares nothing for the part timer and still manage to keep my head high.

[POSTMAN]

For the record Dingo,and any others,i'm a big fan of the product,i want as many as poss and i'm glad the cap is lifted,and i do think it helps secure jobs.
It's just the payment is a piss take,should of been at least a fiver higher,maybe more.And the pro rata not in there.
RM will be making a killing.