Reasons to vote yes!

[fishtank]

I don't think dvb that many people have really got this "delivery span as an enabler" part yet.
I'm sure it will sink in eventually.
If you think cutting off will save you it won't.
They will just send you out an hour earlier.
To enable you to complete.

[Straight4ward]

On the face of it, there’s not a lot to like in this agreement and my initial reaction was one of anger and disappointment. However, having taken a couple of days to think about things, I have decided, somewhat reluctantly, to accept the Union’s recommendation.

My first responsibility is to my family. It is my duty to provide for them and I could not do that without employment.

Secondly, there is the current economic climate. Companies are going to the wall, jobs are being lost. The unemployment rate for the October-December quarter was 7.8%. We don’t operate in a vacuum; we are not immune to outside influences.

The press has already portrayed the offer as a “staggering deal”. Members of the public will not understand why we want to reject this, other than for yet an even better offer. People would view that as nothing more than naked greed. Our argument that striking is about protecting services rather than about money will be shown to be a sham. Anyone trawling through this site can readily see the number of posts about the loss of D2D payments, early shift allowances etc. Just how many threads are there currently running about protecting the service we give the public?

Then there is the current political climate. A general election looms. The Tories would just love to take us on should we be on strike, just to prove their ‘credentials’ to the public. Labour would probably be forced to follow suit for fear that they would be accused of weakness otherwise. Now is the time to keep our heads down below the parapet. Start drawing unnecessary attention to ourselves and whichever party forms the next government will look to offload us as quickly as possible.

The orange alternative. At the last time of asking TNT appeared to be the only realistic bidder for taking us over. Fortunately, terms could not be agreed but if we piss the government of the day of sufficiently then they may well be prepared to accept a lower offer. Think how our terms and conditions would alter then. I believe I’m right in saying that virtually all Holland’s postal delivery staff are part-timers.

The pros:
Many of us are rounding on the union as having sold us out, indeed that was my own initial reaction, but we should look at the gains they have made for the members.
The split of 75% full-time jobs, 25% part-time with a commitment that no full-time employee will be made a part-timer against their wishes.
Improved terms for those accepting voluntary redundancy.
CWU involvement in setting work measurement standards and the planning of the operational changes.
A modest reduction in hours worked and a modest pay increase for some.

The cons:
The removal of the time limit on delivery spans.
However, the document states letter delivery times will be up to 15:00hrs for residential areas and up to 16:00hrs for rural areas, with the vast majority planned to be completed by 14:30hrs. This is little different to what is happening currently. My own duty takes me the best part of 5 hours to complete.

D2D’s
The objections to D2D’s relate to the lifting of the cap on quantity and the reduction in payment. Firstly, as regards the quantity. No I don’t like delivering them and I know most people regard them as an inconvenience, if not a nuisance but if this is necessary to save jobs then so be it.
Secondly, this is talked about as an increase in workload but I’m not convinced. Currently, I work at least 8 hours a day and invariably go over my finish time. If I get to prep and deliver more D2D’S this will take even longer. Therefore I will have the choice of working additional overtime or cutting-off.
The same argument applies to payment, I have around 350 delivery points which in terms of the new pay deal is roughly the break-even point. (Basic + 2% plus £20.60 for 52 weeks of the year as opposed to basic plus £12.87 plus D2D money for 46 weeks of the year.) As mentioned above additional D2D’s will increase the time taken each day and Royal Mail will end up paying me overtime to do them.
Admittedly this argument doesn’t hold up if you are finishing early or have a great many more delivery points (as I know many do) but I can only talk from my own point of view.

Saturdays
A blow for me. It was the one chance I had for a bit of a social life with mates. However, finishing 2 or 3 hours later is not worth jeopardising the deal for me.

In summary, it ain’t grand but given the difficulties and sacrifices that people in other walks of life are having to make in the current economic crisis then I’ll settle for this without too many complaints.

Lastly, before you start kicking lumps out of me, this is merely my opinion. I am not trying to sell the deal to others or influence or change their perception. Postman started the thread wanting to know why people would vote yes and I’ve attempted to answer him.

[dvbuk55]

Aye there's no accounting for taste - no matter how hard you kick some people they just keep coming back for more

[S6 Stroller]

Why i WILL vote YES since the agreement became public i have been listening very carefully in our office and the one's that are up in arms the most are the strike breakers they had thier laugh at us while we lost money now it is our turn to laugh, as i have said to most of them if you are not prepared to take any action then you have to vote yes, you were not willing to back your union then so why should we who did strike back you now, i for one if the vote is a no and action starts again i WILL walk through a picket line for the first time in my life, as the agreement say we must embrace change some change our leader should be ashamed of themselves.

What does this mean?

[slave]

I think I know what it means= no CUT OFFS !

That was already in the previous agreement - flexing - and managers in our office have tried (and failed) to use it - if you are working over your time it's cut off or pay overtime. If you "flex" then they owe you that time back - when are they ever going to find time to give back, start a bit later the day after? And who does the sorting etc.. It's an idea they think will save money but will trip them up in the long run!

surely if they have a bunch of d2ds that have been paid for to go out on a specific day, then they must set the call rates at 100%, otherwise inevitably some of them will fail, so in other words they can't accept these contracts.

I can't recall the specifics of the document but does it say they will accept specific day contracts? Surely they would be charged at a premium and be less appealing to companies trying to advertise on the cheap.. These would, if accepted, be very few and far between I would have thought.

Surely D2D workload will be spread across 6 days (all days being equal) which means any floaters/day offs will have to do their share too..

More work = More resources needed
RM savings = More resources unavailable
call me cynical but thats how I feel about it and the wording in this agreement does nothing to change my mind.

And??
If they don't provide the resources then things will fail, again, let them hang themselves....

They will just send you out an hour earlier.

How? If indoor work is not completed then they will have to get someone else to do the missing bits which may cost them or it will fail?? And we have sequencing machines in our office, still no chance of getting out early and certainly not an hour early without failing..

[dvbuk55]

I don't think dvb that many people have really got this "delivery span as an enabler" part yet.
I'm sure it will sink in eventually.
If you think cutting off will save you it won't.
They will just send you out an hour earlier.
To enable you to complete.

It isn't just that though fh.
There's the start and finish times 1500 and 1600 but we hope everyone will be finished by 1430 - I hope it doesn't rain tomorrow, but there's nothing I can do about it if it does.
Then there's the combined duties - most on here haven't seen park and loop - but boy are they in for a shock - job security? my arse - it'll go through some of these places like a dose of salts - delivery, parcels, packets, specials, tracked and collections - thats the future - THATS 2010 and beyond.

TBH our office has little to fear, because all those things to be visited on these "strong" offices we have as they say "been there, done that, got the T shirt" and come out of the other side, as one strong office wag pointed out about his strike record - well they'll be singing a different tune if this gets in and it won't be the red flag.

I recall the interim agreement where all these proposals for a new and better understanding and fully integrated CWU involvement in planning and change by local agreement - so what was wrong with that - there must have been something because some of the safeguards prior to that have been removed.

Beware greeks bearing gifts with innovative duty structures and flexible work patterns. Too many on here are blinkered into seeing only what is and NOT what can be with new performance targets which the CWU have ratified.

[numan]

I can't recall the specifics of the document but does it say they will accept specific day contracts? Surely they would be charged at a premium


Why would they be charged at a premium when they're paying us no extra to deliver them?

[nelp]

How many of you that intend to vote no are currently finishing early. Does it not occur to you that his can not carry on if we are to protect our jobs we need to be prepared to accept more work , if you speak to your mates that are builders or cabbies etc do they turn away work.

Look at the job we have, paid sick paid holidays we can create duty structures that allow us to put in extra overtime to enhance our earnings and what we are saying if we vote no is we just want to go home early. Think about this if all this extra work takes you past your time we can put in more jobs. The other option is to watch our industry die

[fishtank]

They will just send you out an hour earlier.

How? If indoor work is not completed then they will have to get someone else to do the missing bits which may cost them or it will fail?? And we have sequencing machines in our office, still no chance of getting out early and certainly not an hour early without failing..

Well it's quite simple and this is how RM plan to do it.
It's called the "working backwards system".

If your manager decides your walk will take 5hrs to complete he starts with your finish time.

15.00-5hrs 10.00-15min travelling-40mins break-1.30 to prep.
That takes you to 7.35 so at 7.35 he tells you to go prep your walk.
It is not rocket science really.

[numan]

How many of you that intend to vote no are currently finishing early. Does it not occur to you that his can not carry on if we are to protect our jobs we need to be prepared to accept more work , if you speak to your mates that are builders or cabbies etc do they turn away work.

Look at the job we have, paid sick paid holidays we can create duty structures that allow us to put in extra overtime to enhance our earnings and what we are saying if we vote no is we just want to go home early. Think about this if all this extra work takes you past your time we can put in more jobs. The other option is to watch our industry die

I'm quite prepared to work all my hours (which I usually do anyway) and even clock on and off every day. There's no way RM would want to introduce that though for obvious reasons.

[dvbuk55]

How many of you that intend to vote no are currently finishing early. Does it not occur to you that his can not carry on if we are to protect our jobs we need to be prepared to accept more work , if you speak to your mates that are builders or cabbies etc do they turn away work.

Look at the job we have, paid sick paid holidays we can create duty structures that allow us to put in extra overtime to enhance our earnings and what we are saying if we vote no is we just want to go home early. Think about this if all this extra work takes you past your time we can put in more jobs. The other option is to watch our industry die

These builder and cabbie mates are they the ones working part time for royal mail with creative duty structures?

[POSTMAN]

Why would anyone agree to a 5hr walk?
After this agreement when local negotiations start,the walk spans will be decided,signed of,then it's set in stone.

[clashcityrocker]

15.00-5hrs 10.00-15min travelling-40mins break-1.30 to prep.
That takes you to 7.35 so at 7.35 he tells you to go prep your walk.
It is not rocket science really.

But Fish how do you prep your walk at 7.35 if the mail hasn't arrived yet?

[fishtank]

Why would anyone agree to a 5hr walk?
After this agreement when local negotiations start,the walk spans will be decided,signed of,then it's set in stone.

Well we had a 3.5hr delivery span set in national stone and offices agreed to chip away at the stone.
I would imagine local stone may be of differing qualities.

[dvbuk55]

Why would anyone agree to a 5hr walk?
After this agreement when local negotiations start,the walk spans will be decided,signed of,then it's set in stone.

Ah you see you have fallen into the pre 2010 agreement mode - you think that you are going to be able to negotiate outside the box, softly softly is gone - catchee monkey is very much alive and heading your way. If you think this is yet another rerun of 2007 think again - daddy HQ isn't going to be supporting anything that is reasonable and possible and the mere tone of this agreement should tell you that.