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How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
DirtyHarry
Posts: 5051
Joined: 13 May 2007, 23:16
Gender: Male
Location: London

Re: "£20.60" per week for Unlimited "D2D"'s ?

Post by DirtyHarry »

BELIAL wrote:
billypants wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:Well in theory at least the MC staff, who will fair better initially, would advocate a yes vote HOWEVER delivery officers outnumber them by 2.5 to 1, all that is reuired is that every single delivery officer votes no and it is back to the drawing board - IF THE VOTE COUNT IS ACCURATE. Personally I'd be happier if a truly independent scrutineer was appointed.
My fear is what is the alternative ? if we don't accept this deal RM will just push through all they want by executive action, we lose the 75% to 25% full/part time agreement with the possibility of 25hr men getting 39hr contracts, we lose the ability to be involved with the revision process, we lose the EVR's, we lose the right to negotiate deals locally, we lose the banning of private cars on duty, we lose all the positives that are within this deal for what ? we'll be back out on the kerb losing more pay, getting no public support and putting our union negotiators in a weaker position than they were last time because we will not get the same support for industrial action. Don't get me wrong I don't like the deal but what can we realistically hope to gain by refusing it ?
Better terms better conditions, or nothing gets delivered. :roll: Getting ticked off with "I don't like it,but I'm only a weak and powerless worm" crew. Stop bleating and do something,or keep your self pitying groans to yourself and take the beating,pussies :Boo hoo!
Well said, BELIAL. :Applause :Applause :Applause This is no time to wave a white flag.
billypants
Posts: 563
Joined: 25 May 2007, 12:11
Location: South East

Re: "£20.60" per week for Unlimited "D2D"'s ?

Post by billypants »

mondeoman1 wrote:
billypants wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:Well in theory at least the MC staff, who will fair better initially, would advocate a yes vote HOWEVER delivery officers outnumber them by 2.5 to 1, all that is reuired is that every single delivery officer votes no and it is back to the drawing board - IF THE VOTE COUNT IS ACCURATE. Personally I'd be happier if a truly independent scrutineer was appointed.
My fear is what is the alternative ? if we don't accept this deal RM will just push through all they want by executive action, we lose the 75% to 25% full/part time agreement with the possibility of 25hr men getting 39hr contracts, we lose the ability to be involved with the revision process, we lose the EVR's, we lose the right to negotiate deals locally, we lose the banning of private cars on duty, we lose all the positives that are within this deal for what ? we'll be back out on the kerb losing more pay, getting no public support and putting our union negotiators in a weaker position than they were last time because we will not get the same support for industrial action. Don't get me wrong I don't like the deal but what can we realistically hope to gain by refusing it ?
In 2007 when we had to vote for the agreement I felt exactly the same as you do now. I had not been with RM long then and am ashamed to say I voted yes to the agreement.
Now 3 years later and I have had my eyes well and truly opened. We made the savings, lost the hours, condensed duties, Lost staff through EVR's, lapsed duties and what did we get.
Not a pay rise nor any bonus payments but the dims got their bonuses for savings made in DO's.
This time they are not lying and have put down in black and white exactly how they are going to shaft us and the union have agreed with them.
This time has to be a definite NO. I work in a small DO with around 50 staff and every one of them are saying they will be voting NO.
Then explain it to me and all the other undecided voters. You say that they have put down exactly how they are going to shaft us, so please explain to us exactly how that is and show which sections of the agreement state this. I'm not arguing with you I just want to know your reasoning to see whether or not I agree.
Together we stand, divided we fall
Theghost
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 417
Joined: 17 Mar 2009, 16:44
Gender: Male

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by Theghost »

I cannot believe the union agreed to this pathetic d2d ruling.

Part timers get pro rata?

Im on a 30 hour contact delivering to 600 houses (pay cut from the average £30 i get now) and full timers who deliver to 400 houses get an extra £5 per week?????????? and im supposed to be happy with £15.45p????????

None of the part timers are voting yes for this deal in my office,We all had a quick meeting this morning and are to put it lightly outraged.

If every office is like ours where the part timers outweigh fulltimers by 2-1 and they think the same then this deal wont be accepted.

Bloody disgusting.
Big Daz
Posts: 5668
Joined: 17 Apr 2007, 20:27
Gender: Male

Re: loss of door 2 door payment

Post by Big Daz »

piranha wrote:I wonder if this covers election material as well

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
billypants
Posts: 563
Joined: 25 May 2007, 12:11
Location: South East

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by billypants »

Theghost wrote:I cannot believe the union agreed to this pathetic d2d ruling.

Part timers get pro rata?

Im on a 30 hour contact delivering to 600 houses (pay cut from the average £30 i get now) and full timers who deliver to 400 houses get an extra £5 per week?????????? and im supposed to be happy with £15.45p????????

None of the part timers are voting yes for this deal in my office,We all had a quick meeting this morning and are to put it lightly outraged.

If every office is like ours where the part timers outweigh fulltimers by 2-1 and they think the same then this deal wont be accepted.

Bloody disgusting.
under the new agreement your office can support no more than 25% part time staff, this means that the rest of you will be able to apply for full time duties. We asked our local managers to confirm this and they agreed that this is correct if the agreement is passed. So if this deal means you could get a 39 hour week would that change your view ?
Together we stand, divided we fall
Theghost
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 417
Joined: 17 Mar 2009, 16:44
Gender: Male

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by Theghost »

Well billy,I have been wanting to go full time for ages now as have many others,With another baby on the way i would be stupid to vote no.
I hope this is true,I still think its unfair for part timers to get this pro rata though.
New baby in June and Full time on the horizon? Its a yes from me then :nana
welshy808
Posts: 182
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 20:51
Gender: Male

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by welshy808 »

billypants wrote:
Theghost wrote:I cannot believe the union agreed to this pathetic d2d ruling.

Part timers get pro rata?

Im on a 30 hour contact delivering to 600 houses (pay cut from the average £30 i get now) and full timers who deliver to 400 houses get an extra £5 per week?????????? and im supposed to be happy with £15.45p????????

None of the part timers are voting yes for this deal in my office,We all had a quick meeting this morning and are to put it lightly outraged.

If every office is like ours where the part timers outweigh fulltimers by 2-1 and they think the same then this deal wont be accepted.

Bloody disgusting.
under the new agreement your office can support no more than 25% part time staff, this means that the rest of you will be able to apply for full time duties. We asked our local managers to confirm this and they agreed that this is correct if the agreement is passed. So if this deal means you could get a 39 hour week would that change your view ?
I think you'll find the 75/25 split is a national aim, this will include all RM staff from Higson down including Office staff, wages staff, DOM's they are all fulltime so will eat into the 75% so will 4 day week offices (mostly FT), London already has a higher FT ratio.
Then you Have to expect RM to abide byany deal that they sign up to, remember how long it took them to renege on the 2007 deal.
mondeoman1
Posts: 133
Joined: 28 Oct 2009, 18:19
Gender: Male

Re: "£20.60" per week for Unlimited "D2D"'s ?

Post by mondeoman1 »

billypants wrote:
mondeoman1 wrote:
billypants wrote:
dvbuk55 wrote:Well in theory at least the MC staff, who will fair better initially, would advocate a yes vote HOWEVER delivery officers outnumber them by 2.5 to 1, all that is reuired is that every single delivery officer votes no and it is back to the drawing board - IF THE VOTE COUNT IS ACCURATE. Personally I'd be happier if a truly independent scrutineer was appointed.
My fear is what is the alternative ? if we don't accept this deal RM will just push through all they want by executive action, we lose the 75% to 25% full/part time agreement with the possibility of 25hr men getting 39hr contracts, we lose the ability to be involved with the revision process, we lose the EVR's, we lose the right to negotiate deals locally, we lose the banning of private cars on duty, we lose all the positives that are within this deal for what ? we'll be back out on the kerb losing more pay, getting no public support and putting our union negotiators in a weaker position than they were last time because we will not get the same support for industrial action. Don't get me wrong I don't like the deal but what can we realistically hope to gain by refusing it ?
In 2007 when we had to vote for the agreement I felt exactly the same as you do now. I had not been with RM long then and am ashamed to say I voted yes to the agreement.
Now 3 years later and I have had my eyes well and truly opened. We made the savings, lost the hours, condensed duties, Lost staff through EVR's, lapsed duties and what did we get.
Not a pay rise nor any bonus payments but the dims got their bonuses for savings made in DO's.
This time they are not lying and have put down in black and white exactly how they are going to shaft us and the union have agreed with them.
This time has to be a definite NO. I work in a small DO with around 50 staff and every one of them are saying they will be voting NO.
Then explain it to me and all the other undecided voters. You say that they have put down exactly how they are going to shaft us, so please explain to us exactly how that is and show which sections of the agreement state this. I'm not arguing with you I just want to know your reasoning to see whether or not I agree.

Apart from the obvious loss of earnings through D2D's and early shift allowance which you are aware of I will try to explain how I read it.

It states that the £20.60 supplement will be rolled out through 2011, 2012. As it is a supplement and not put on your basic pay it can be taken off you in 2012 just like the early shift allowance is being taken off you now.

It says union will be involved at local level to check duties are fair, this was agreed in 2007 agreement but the union rep in our DO just agreed to everything the management did.
The words like "enabler" and local agreement give no specifics and are open to abuse by management.

The part timers are getting £10.60 for delivering the same number of D2D'S as a full timer so if you are paired with a part timer this will cause conflict.

I don't believe we will see a lot of the bonuses as RM will say we are not where we wanted to be at this moment in time.

To be honest I can't see a reason for voting this in. I really don't want another strike as I can't afford it but this agreement is giving RM the opportunity to do what they want and with the unions agreement.
spilie
Posts: 515
Joined: 28 Oct 2007, 21:48

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by spilie »

lets knock the 75% full time in every D.O on the head, it aint gonna happen but dont take my word for it ask your DOM to sign an agreement stating that before you vote, i think then you will finally get the truth
mondeoman1
Posts: 133
Joined: 28 Oct 2009, 18:19
Gender: Male

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by mondeoman1 »

spilie wrote:lets knock the 75% full time in every D.O on the head, it aint gonna happen but dont take my word for it ask your DOM to sign an agreement stating that before you vote, i think then you will finally get the truth
Good point, well made.
Mine is currently 60/40 and interviewing part time today.

Fecking liars.
DirtyHarry
Posts: 5051
Joined: 13 May 2007, 23:16
Gender: Male
Location: London

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by DirtyHarry »

Theghost wrote:Well billy,I have been wanting to go full time for ages now as have many others,With another baby on the way i would be stupid to vote no.
I hope this is true,I still think its unfair for part timers to get this pro rata though.
New baby in June and Full time on the horizon? Its a yes from me then :nana
Oh, dear. :roll: You're being had, mate. If you're not part-time, and delivering double the amount of door2dustbins than at present, and for next to nothing, this time next year, I'll eat this computer, and yours too! :Very Happy
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by fishtank »

billypants wrote:
Theghost wrote:I cannot believe the union agreed to this pathetic d2d ruling.

Part timers get pro rata?

Im on a 30 hour contact delivering to 600 houses (pay cut from the average £30 i get now) and full timers who deliver to 400 houses get an extra £5 per week?????????? and im supposed to be happy with £15.45p????????

None of the part timers are voting yes for this deal in my office,We all had a quick meeting this morning and are to put it lightly outraged.

If every office is like ours where the part timers outweigh fulltimers by 2-1 and they think the same then this deal wont be accepted.

Bloody disgusting.
under the new agreement your office can support no more than 25% part time staff, this means that the rest of you will be able to apply for full time duties. We asked our local managers to confirm this and they agreed that this is correct if the agreement is passed. So if this deal means you could get a 39 hour week would that change your view ?
This is absolute nonsense.
Can you imagine walking into an office with 95% full-time and telling them full-time positions must go. :chuckle :chuckle
And offices with 95% full-time do exist in certain areas. :hmmmm
The 75/25 split is national and is only a vague plan........by 2013. :d'oh!
If you don't believe me read the agreement. :cuppa

"The mix of full time and part time is planned to be around three quarters full time and one quarter part time by 2013. The exact ratio will vary locally depending on the current local mix, needs and employee preferences."
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
fedupwithislot
Posts: 12
Joined: 11 Mar 2010, 18:49
Gender: Male

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by fedupwithislot »

About 360 quid a year, pay for a week in lanzarote that would.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.
Animal Farm by George Orwell (1903-1950)
heapsy
Posts: 2977
Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 23:40
Gender: Male
Location: Drinking with Gangsters

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by heapsy »

rogue wrote:with the pay rise and the inclusion of d2d into workload and a reduction of 1 hour of your attendance you will find you are not actually losing as the prep time will take up more of your duty and all delivery duty holders will receive the £20.60 for 52 weeks of the year.
what else you need to take in to account is that royal mail could have ceased the early shift anyway as you properbly do not start early anymore and that long term d2d is going to arrive in a plastic sleeve so no matter how many d2d you had you would only have been paid for 1.
so i belive that it is a smart move in keeping all the current money and having d2d in to workload as it is protecting full time jobs and keeping money we would lost in the long run
I agree with your first point. However, you have to remember that the early shift allowance is pensionable, so you WILL lose pension contribution and benefit. What I cannot get my head around, is that people who do not do D2D, such as staff in the callers office, and the ones running the Walk Sequencing machines etc, will ALSO get the payment, even though they won't have to do them. :hmmmm
heapsy
Posts: 2977
Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 23:40
Gender: Male
Location: Drinking with Gangsters

Re: How much will you lose in D2d payment?

Post by heapsy »

fishtank wrote:
billypants wrote:
Theghost wrote:I cannot believe the union agreed to this pathetic d2d ruling.

Part timers get pro rata?

Im on a 30 hour contact delivering to 600 houses (pay cut from the average £30 i get now) and full timers who deliver to 400 houses get an extra £5 per week?????????? and im supposed to be happy with £15.45p????????

None of the part timers are voting yes for this deal in my office,We all had a quick meeting this morning and are to put it lightly outraged.

If every office is like ours where the part timers outweigh fulltimers by 2-1 and they think the same then this deal wont be accepted.

Bloody disgusting.
under the new agreement your office can support no more than 25% part time staff, this means that the rest of you will be able to apply for full time duties. We asked our local managers to confirm this and they agreed that this is correct if the agreement is passed. So if this deal means you could get a 39 hour week would that change your view ?
This is absolute nonsense.
Can you imagine walking into an office with 95% full-time and telling them full-time positions must go. :chuckle :chuckle
And offices with 95% full-time do exist in certain areas. :hmmmm
The 75/25 split is national and is only a vague plan........by 2013. :d'oh!
If you don't believe me read the agreement. :cuppa

"The mix of full time and part time is planned to be around three quarters full time and one quarter part time by 2013. The exact ratio will vary locally depending on the current local mix, needs and employee preferences."
I think it's about 50/50 in our office, or possibly even 60% pt/ 40ft, so I can't seem RM changing that for us.