How much will you lose in D2d payment?

[Pegman]

The whole thing is un fair full stop. If you collate the sodding leaflets and take them out slog round and deliver the buggers then part time or full time you should get paid PER HOUSE end of !!!!!

If you dont work with the delivery of door 2 door,s then i still dont see why you should be paid

Thing is we mere mortals, and everyone I speak to can see how fair this is, how come our elected leaders on £46k a year can't (Just realised I answered my own question there)

I say lets vote out all the leaders of CWU and start afresh with some blokes who come from the real world, not the virtual ideal world the present tossers live in.
If this goes through the CWU will lose me as a member.

[krussel]

Ok, let me put it this way.
One hour of your work is the same as one hour of anybodies work in royal mail. If you cover for anyone, it will be another part timer on 30 hours, not a full timer so I don't understand your point there.
The £20.60 is really built into our main pay but they haven't explicitly done that.
The hour of work you do could be driving, callers office, delivering parcels, doing D2D or sorting. It won't matter, you get paid the same regardless. The fact is that with building D2D into workload, they should have built D2D payment into basic pay, hence all this confusion.
I still think it can't work, the theory is sound but the practice is impossible....

It would have less of a sting if it was built into basic pay, what a typical RM thing to do to divide the workforce .

[Pegman]

Ok, let me put it this way.
One hour of your work is the same as one hour of anybodies work in royal mail. If you cover for anyone, it will be another part timer on 30 hours, not a full timer so I don't understand your point there.
The £20.60 is really built into our main pay but they haven't explicitly done that.
The hour of work you do could be driving, callers office, delivering parcels, doing D2D or sorting. It won't matter, you get paid the same regardless. The fact is that with building D2D into workload, they should have built D2D payment into basic pay, hence all this confusion.
I still think it can't work, the theory is sound but the practice is impossible....

The £20.60 is only one stumbling block though, that payment makes me out of pocket by at least a fiver a week to start, then making it pro rata, lifting the 3 leaflet limit could in effect be a £25 a week cut, I'll happily deliver a leaflet to every house every, if they pay me to do it as they do now.

The D2D system must be profitable for RM now or they would stop doing it, this is just going to make more profit off our backs, every house, every day for £14 a week, they must think I'm an idiot. Irrespective of whether you are full time or part time, this is a terrible deal.

[DemonPostie]

Ok, regardless of the part/full time issue, this is going to result in a substantial pay cut for myself and at least everyone in my office. Unless you were on a particularly small round, where you only get twenty quid at present for the door-to-doors you do, this will hurt. d2d's make up a good chunk of my current wages, and so a cut to them stings. Not only that, but have no doubt we will be delivering MORE, and MORE OFTEN.

The agreement says not only will we be delivering 52 weeks a year (including xmas!), but that we will offer "time sensitive" service, i.e. a company will likely be able to ask us to deliver ALL their d2d's on, say, a saturday. Or xmas eve. Multiply that by, lets say 5 contracts, and all of a sudden I will be potentially delivering an extra 3000 pieces of post. On a saturday. For less money than before. And so will you. So let's vote NO.

[Pegman]

Ok, regardless of the part/full time issue, this is going to result in a substantial pay cut for myself and at least everyone in my office. Unless you were on a particularly small round, where you only get twenty quid at present for the door-to-doors you do, this will hurt. d2d's make up a good chunk of my current wages, and so a cut to them stings. Not only that, but have no doubt we will be delivering MORE, and MORE OFTEN.

The agreement says not only will we be delivering 52 weeks a year (including xmas!), but that we will offer "time sensitive" service, i.e. a company will likely be able to ask us to deliver ALL their d2d's on, say, a saturday. Or xmas eve. Multiply that by, lets say 5 contracts, and all of a sudden I will be potentially delivering an extra 3000 pieces of post. On a saturday. For less money than before. And so will you. So let's vote NO.

[dvbuk55]

Well in theory at least the MC staff, who will fair better initially, would advocate a yes vote HOWEVER delivery officers outnumber them by 2.5 to 1, all that is reuired is that every single delivery officer votes no and it is back to the drawing board - IF THE VOTE COUNT IS ACCURATE. Personally I'd be happier if a truly independent scrutineer was appointed.

[tom63uk]

I dont do D2D but work in delivery office deliverying packets.Do i get the 20.60 or will they make sure its for only people on walks.Just a thought

[fishtank]

I dont do D2D but work in delivery office deliverying packets.Do i get the 20.60 or will they make sure its for only people on walks.Just a thought

You will get the Supplement but it is doubtful in the long run that you will continue to deliver packets anyway.
The new delivery model will take care of those.

[billypants]

Well in theory at least the MC staff, who will fair better initially, would advocate a yes vote HOWEVER delivery officers outnumber them by 2.5 to 1, all that is reuired is that every single delivery officer votes no and it is back to the drawing board - IF THE VOTE COUNT IS ACCURATE. Personally I'd be happier if a truly independent scrutineer was appointed.

My fear is what is the alternative ? if we don't accept this deal RM will just push through all they want by executive action, we lose the 75% to 25% full/part time agreement with the possibility of 25hr men getting 39hr contracts, we lose the ability to be involved with the revision process, we lose the EVR's, we lose the right to negotiate deals locally, we lose the banning of private cars on duty, we lose all the positives that are within this deal for what ? we'll be back out on the kerb losing more pay, getting no public support and putting our union negotiators in a weaker position than they were last time because we will not get the same support for industrial action. Don't get me wrong I don't like the deal but what can we realistically hope to gain by refusing it ?

[BELIAL]

Well in theory at least the MC staff, who will fair better initially, would advocate a yes vote HOWEVER delivery officers outnumber them by 2.5 to 1, all that is reuired is that every single delivery officer votes no and it is back to the drawing board - IF THE VOTE COUNT IS ACCURATE. Personally I'd be happier if a truly independent scrutineer was appointed.

My fear is what is the alternative ? if we don't accept this deal RM will just push through all they want by executive action, we lose the 75% to 25% full/part time agreement with the possibility of 25hr men getting 39hr contracts, we lose the ability to be involved with the revision process, we lose the EVR's, we lose the right to negotiate deals locally, we lose the banning of private cars on duty, we lose all the positives that are within this deal for what ? we'll be back out on the kerb losing more pay, getting no public support and putting our union negotiators in a weaker position than they were last time because we will not get the same support for industrial action. Don't get me wrong I don't like the deal but what can we realistically hope to gain by refusing it ?

Better terms better conditions, or nothing gets delivered. Getting ticked off with "I don't like it,but I'm only a weak and powerless worm" crew. Stop bleating and do something,or keep your self pitying groans to yourself and take the beating,pussies

[andrewS]

My fear is what is the alternative ? if we don't accept this deal RM will just push through all they want by executive action, we lose the 75% to 25% full/part time agreement with the possibility of 25hr men getting 39hr contracts, we lose the ability to be involved with the revision process, we lose the EVR's, we lose the right to negotiate deals locally, we lose the banning of private cars on duty, we lose all the positives that are within this deal for what ? we'll be back out on the kerb losing more pay, getting no public support and putting our union negotiators in a weaker position than they were last time because we will not get the same support for industrial action. Don't get me wrong I don't like the deal but what can we realistically hope to gain by refusing it ?

Better terms better conditions, or nothing gets delivered. Getting ticked off with "I don't like it,but I'm only a weak and powerless worm" crew. Stop bleating and do something,or keep your self pitying groans to yourself and take the beating,pussies

Im always up for a walk out, but I think billypants has a point. Can we realistically expect a better deal? Or will RM use a no-vote as an political excuse to walk away from negotiations and cling to the labour goverments recent promise to freeze public sector pay for 2 or 3 years to avoid giving us a 6.9% rise over 3 years? Its not a great deal, but Im considering if it may be the lesser of 2 evils.

It may be a matter of cutting our losses and not going all in on a losing hand.

Theres a lot to consider, it aint black and white.

[billypants]

My fear is what is the alternative ? if we don't accept this deal RM will just push through all they want by executive action, we lose the 75% to 25% full/part time agreement with the possibility of 25hr men getting 39hr contracts, we lose the ability to be involved with the revision process, we lose the EVR's, we lose the right to negotiate deals locally, we lose the banning of private cars on duty, we lose all the positives that are within this deal for what ? we'll be back out on the kerb losing more pay, getting no public support and putting our union negotiators in a weaker position than they were last time because we will not get the same support for industrial action. Don't get me wrong I don't like the deal but what can we realistically hope to gain by refusing it ?

Better terms better conditions, or nothing gets delivered. Getting ticked off with "I don't like it,but I'm only a weak and powerless worm" crew. Stop bleating and do something,or keep your self pitying groans to yourself and take the beating,pussies

Im always up for a walk out, but I think billypants has a point. Can we realistically expect a better deal? Or will RM use a no-vote as an political excuse to walk away from negotiations and cling to the labour goverments recent promise to freeze public sector pay for 2 or 3 years to avoid giving us a 6.9% rise over 3 years? Its not a great deal, but Im considering if it may be the lesser of 2 evils.

It may be a matter of cutting our losses and not going all in on a losing hand.

Theres a lot to consider, it aint black and white.

this is exactly my point, I'm always 100% behind industrial action and will always be on that picket line, when I think we have something to gain by doing so. Right now I'm just not that sure, I've read the agreement right through and can't decide which way to jump. We have to accept that with all agreements it's a matter of give and take, we can't get everything we want and we will have to give some things in order to gain others. This industry of ours is changing and we can't stop that but we can try and steer it in a direction that suits us best. Like andrewS says "it aint black and white".

As for your line of " keep your self pitying groans to yourself " BELIAL , isn't the point of a forum like this to air all concerns and points of view and have meaningful discusions in order to make inteligent decisions, not just insult anyone who has a different opinion to ourselves ?

[clashcityrocker]

Better terms better conditions, or nothing gets delivered. !

Are you assuming we can negotiate better terms and conditions or do you think that can only be achieved through strike action?
If it is the latter, I think your NOTHING gets delivered is wildly optimistic.How long do you think the average postie will stand on the gate?
If strike action was the answer to all our problems why aren't we demanding a 20% pay rise (We deserve it) and all out until it is achieved?

[spilie]

Well in theory at least the MC staff, who will fair better initially, would advocate a yes vote HOWEVER delivery officers outnumber them by 2.5 to 1, all that is reuired is that every single delivery officer votes no and it is back to the drawing board - IF THE VOTE COUNT IS ACCURATE. Personally I'd be happier if a truly independent scrutineer was appointed.

My fear is what is the alternative ? if we don't accept this deal RM will just push through all they want by executive action, we lose the 75% to 25% full/part time agreement with the possibility of 25hr men getting 39hr contracts, we lose the ability to be involved with the revision process, we lose the EVR's, we lose the right to negotiate deals locally, we lose the banning of private cars on duty, we lose all the positives that are within this deal for what ? we'll be back out on the kerb losing more pay, getting no public support and putting our union negotiators in a weaker position than they were last time because we will not get the same support for industrial action. Don't get me wrong I don't like the deal but what can we realistically hope to gain by refusing it ?

Better terms better conditions, or nothing gets delivered. Getting ticked off with "I don't like it,but I'm only a weak and powerless worm" crew. Stop bleating and do something,or keep your self pitying groans to yourself and take the beating,pussies

fuc**ng spot on belial

[mondeoman1]

Well in theory at least the MC staff, who will fair better initially, would advocate a yes vote HOWEVER delivery officers outnumber them by 2.5 to 1, all that is reuired is that every single delivery officer votes no and it is back to the drawing board - IF THE VOTE COUNT IS ACCURATE. Personally I'd be happier if a truly independent scrutineer was appointed.

My fear is what is the alternative ? if we don't accept this deal RM will just push through all they want by executive action, we lose the 75% to 25% full/part time agreement with the possibility of 25hr men getting 39hr contracts, we lose the ability to be involved with the revision process, we lose the EVR's, we lose the right to negotiate deals locally, we lose the banning of private cars on duty, we lose all the positives that are within this deal for what ? we'll be back out on the kerb losing more pay, getting no public support and putting our union negotiators in a weaker position than they were last time because we will not get the same support for industrial action. Don't get me wrong I don't like the deal but what can we realistically hope to gain by refusing it ?

In 2007 when we had to vote for the agreement I felt exactly the same as you do now. I had not been with RM long then and am ashamed to say I voted yes to the agreement.
Now 3 years later and I have had my eyes well and truly opened. We made the savings, lost the hours, condensed duties, Lost staff through EVR's, lapsed duties and what did we get.
Not a pay rise nor any bonus payments but the dims got their bonuses for savings made in DO's.
This time they are not lying and have put down in black and white exactly how they are going to shaft us and the union have agreed with them.
This time has to be a definite NO. I work in a small DO with around 50 staff and every one of them are saying they will be voting NO.