The truth responds

[fishtank]

Don't get involved in a PT/FT war.
This deal is so poor we are ALL losers.
We need to stand together if this "deal" is to get what it deserves.

[stokes11eg]

MM-working more hours does not mean you are going to get paid for them!! This is happening more and more. and more door to doors is a no -no..

[rhino49]

Unfortunately your answer is the prevailing view of many people in all workplaces.

I'm alright jack, Dont care about you or your circumstances.

Perhaps you will take the time to read this site about how available F/T jobs are in RM.

I would love to be F/T, but to inform you if you dont realise, RM are not taking any more F/T on.

As for your ascertation that I am in bed and should do more overtime, how dare you.

I manage to scrape two hours o/t a week if I am lucky,

Your opening statement about showing respect, shows just how little you have.

BTW, I receive £170 a week, try living on that, I would gladly change with you.

Been there, worn the tee-shirt, read the book etc etc etc - Brought up two kids on part time wages and struggled to pay my bills while I waited five years for full time status and over following years have earned the fulltime pay I now get and the allowances I will now lose because RM want to make it fairer for you.

Don't bleat at me Labbloke, about things not being fair - if you want a fair society then everyone will end up doing as little as possible for the same amount. If you are waiting for full time status then it may be a long wait, despite the "document" stating an expected ratio of 75/25 for full and part time staff, I suspect that many of those full timers will not be on delivery, so given that the only light at the end of the tunnel may be a train coming towards us, what do you suggest?, reducing full timers hours so that you get your equal share?

We as a union are campaigning for a 35 hour week which will probably mean part timers hours increasing to fill the void. - that will drive up your hourly rate as well and bring you within reach of the untold riches that we full timers allegedly earn, just be patient…

p.s. I did not suggest that you stayed in bed to avoid overtime - but I don't know any part timers that have to get up at 04:00 to start their normal day on time, ours roll in long after the full timers unless of course they are the few idiots who work early for nothing to get a flyer so they can finish on time and run to their second jobs.

It is true that I meant no disrespect to you, but the we are in different jobs, and seeing those jobs from different perspectives - you would like to earn what I do - I would like to have the free time that you do but we must both face realities about the company that we work for and it’s aims. They want value for money, and they are going to get it whether we like it or not, and every employer out there now is exactly the same.

[The truth!]

MM-working more hours does not mean you are going to get paid for them!! This is happening more and more. and more door to doors is a no -no..

Look the agreement is quite clear on this and there is review group to over see it. Now what gets me is there are people willing to slag off the union , and calling for its rejection and saying we should go out on strike but seem scared to say to their DOM that I cant finish my delivery and need more hours. The fact is that door to door will be part of your total office traffic and under geo route or walk sequencing will mean that your office will get extra hours to prep and deliver it.

Now in terms of losers well like I said before there will be losers at the start. Appoxmately 21 % of staff are part time, and the payment will be pro rata , however there will be winners as well drivers , reserves , indoor and rest day covers. Plus some offices dont get 3 items and some offices dont do door to door at all because ofthe high firms ratio or that a small group only do door 2 door.

In addition you have to remember door 2 door has not increased since 1995 because Royal Mail state that they are turning away money because of the cap. Last year they turned 40 million of door 2 door items away. In addition the early shift allowance is a closed allowance and will not be increased in the future and no one new will get it. By putting the two into the supplement they will both grow with every pay increase and new entrants will get the supplement.

Now some posters point out that other companies offer bigger payments for door to door , but they dont offer the basic pay this company offers or sick pay , hoiliday pay , pensions etc. Please remember that Royal Mail wanted to just cease door to door payments and include the work into workload without any payments at all.

For ease of reference i will not make my mind up on the agreement until after I have spoke to the reps and members and after I have heard about the agreement at the briefing.

But equally I dont live in denial of the changes which are happening in some offices as we speak, March is seeing the biggest increase in walk sequencing machines being deployed since TNT did the same in Holland. Thats the facts.

[el_cartero]

looks like im a loser then :) hopefully that means 21% will leave the union.

MORE d2d LESS money where is the logic . ( with a -50% attribute if your part time) skill class loser

[fishtank]

If you have not made up your mind on the agreement."The Truth!".
Why are you trying to sell it?

"Now in terms of losers well like I said before there will be losers at the start."
Not just at the start.
Even with a 7 % increase i will not regain my current pay level until year 3 of this deal.
Which means i will have gone 5 years without a pay rise.
And i am full-time.The part-time staff have been treated even more badly.
The only winners from this D2D debacle are ironically those who do not even take them. Sounds fair doesn't it.
How RM expect to drive up quality by failing to reward the very staff who deliver them is beyond me.
As for the union negotiators,they should be ashamed of themselves.
I am embarrassed for them.

[singingpostman]

Dress it up how you will my friend but very simply the d2d being pro rata is very bad, and has stopped my interest in buydown 100%, I will stay full time and judging by my normally very unmilitant office, then this offer has as much chance of a yes vote as Dave Ward being made slimmer of the year.

[k979aaa]

This deal is like the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact with CWU as the RUSSIANS and ROYALMAIL as the NAZI'S and guess who we are POLAND stitched up ready to be carved up!. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2 ... ntrop_Pact" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[el_cartero]

what the sorting staff that will vote yes for there 20 a week payment dont realise is.

THEY ARE GOING TO BE THE ONES LOSING THERE JOBS.

and what full timers dont realise whats happening to part time conditions is

THEY ARE GOING TO BE MADE PART TIME ALSO.

remember the bit in the agreement about agreeing to job losses?

dont say i didnt tell u so

[kendo1]

Iconsider ,and I am sure many will our primary role is that of delivering addressed mail and packets,thats what we get basic pay for,plus IPS of addressed mail?

This week in my office,some have gone over their time delivering and some cut off,the ones who cut off were threatend with suspension for not working hard enough.

So on top up this we are being expected to do larger rounds,outside for longer hours,Start later wich will cause Family problems ,finnish a lot later on Saturdays and totaly mess up our already short weekend for a 2% basic rise,including no pay rise last year,2% is still below inflation,and then to top off matters do unlimited D2D for £8.00 A week

Protects full time job,at what cost.Many will get fed up and leave others will go off sick with injures caused by these extended walks.

Local agreement
Can some senior people please explain just what is a local issue ?
Is this when the Branch Rep trys to deal with the Dom only for the Dom to say this is a area policy Etc.
Another Cop out like absorbtion?

A £1000 bribe paid in dribs and drabs is not worth it.

RM has plenty of money look at Crozier recent bonus.

[Delivery Donkey]

If Royal Mail are going to make that much out of D2D, then we (who Carry Them) deserve alot more money for taking them!!!

[realmichael]

If you have not made up your mind on the agreement."The Truth!".
Why are you trying to sell it?

"Now in terms of losers well like I said before there will be losers at the start."
Not just at the start.
Even with a 7 % increase i will not regain my current pay level until year 3 of this deal.
Which means i will have gone 5 years without a pay rise.
And i am full-time.The part-time staff have been treated even more badly.
The only winners from this D2D debacle are ironically those who do not even take them. Sounds fair doesn't it.
How RM expect to drive up quality by failing to reward the very staff who deliver them is beyond me.
As for the union negotiators,they should be ashamed of themselves.
I am embarresed for them.

i would sugest that the only winners from all this are royal mail, big time

[stokes11eg]

MM-working more hours does not mean you are going to get paid for them!! This is happening more and more. and more door to doors is a no -no..

Look the agreement is quite clear on this and there is review group to over see it. Now what gets me is there are people willing to slag off the union , and calling for its rejection and saying we should go out on strike but seem scared to say to their DOM that I cant finish my delivery and need more hours. The fact is that door to door will be part of your total office traffic and under geo route or walk sequencing will mean that your office will get extra hours to prep and deliver it.

Now in terms of losers well like I said before there will be losers at the start. Appoxmately 21 % of staff are part time, and the payment will be pro rata , however there will be winners as well drivers , reserves , indoor and rest day covers. Plus some offices dont get 3 items and some offices dont do door to door at all because ofthe high firms ratio or that a small group only do door 2 door.

In addition you have to remember door 2 door has not increased since 1995 because Royal Mail state that they are turning away money because of the cap. Last year they turned 40 million of door 2 door items away. In addition the early shift allowance is a closed allowance and will not be increased in the future and no one new will get it. By putting the two into the supplement they will both grow with every pay increase and new entrants will get the supplement.

Now some posters point out that other companies offer bigger payments for door to door , but they dont offer the basic pay this company offers or sick pay , hoiliday pay , pensions etc. Please remember that Royal Mail wanted to just cease door to door payments and include the work into workload without any payments at all.

For ease of reference i will not make my mind up on the agreement until after I have spoke to the reps and members and after I have heard about the agreement at the briefing.

But equally I dont live in denial of the changes which are happening in some offices as we speak, March is seeing the biggest increase in walk sequencing machines being deployed since TNT did the same in Holland. Thats the facts.

Truth! I've said all along on these posts we know there are some great Union reps out there, and many thanks to them. But,most of us on here cannot be wrong , THIS Union and it's leadership are no good at all. Surely even the most ardent Union man can see this agreement for the con it is.Hopefully, it will be rejected out of hand.

[el_cartero]

i think that even tho it seems everyones voting no - thats the posties.

ask opg , mail sort what they wil be voting and its probably yes.

except we are the ones being forced to do extra and take the cut. generating millions for royal mail.

its a stich up - and they WANT us to quit after the yes vote comes through with a unworkable workload and replaced then with poorly paid PTers.

THAT IS THE JUST OF IT GUYS

this agreement is not protecting jobs !!!!!!!!!!

its royal mail getting what they want!

And if that guy the truth tries to sell us the agreement - hes a traitor and a lier

[spilie]

Unfortunately your answer is the prevailing view of many people in all workplaces.

I'm alright jack, Dont care about you or your circumstances.

Perhaps you will take the time to read this site about how available F/T jobs are in RM.

I would love to be F/T, but to inform you if you dont realise, RM are not taking any more F/T on.

As for your ascertation that I am in bed and should do more overtime, how dare you.

I manage to scrape two hours o/t a week if I am lucky,

Your opening statement about showing respect, shows just how little you have.

BTW, I receive £170 a week, try living on that, I would gladly change with you.

Been there, worn the tee-shirt, read the book etc etc etc - Brought up two kids on part time wages and struggled to pay my bills while I waited five years for full time status and over following years have earned the fulltime pay I now get and the allowances I will now lose because RM want to make it fairer for you.

Don't bleat at me Labbloke, about things not being fair - if you want a fair society then everyone will end up doing as little as possible for the same amount. If you are waiting for full time status then it may be a long wait, despite the "document" stating an expected ratio of 75/25 for full and part time staff, I suspect that many of those full timers will not be on delivery, so given that the only light at the end of the tunnel may be a train coming towards us, what do you suggest?, reducing full timers hours so that you get your equal share?

We as a union are campaigning for a 35 hour week which will probably mean part timers hours increasing to fill the void. - that will drive up your hourly rate as well and bring you within reach of the untold riches that we full timers allegedly earn, just be patient…

p.s. I did not suggest that you stayed in bed to avoid overtime - but I don't know any part timers that have to get up at 04:00 to start their normal day on time, ours roll in long after the full timers unless of course they are the few idiots who work early for nothing to get a flyer so they can finish on time and run to their second jobs.

It is true that I meant no disrespect to you, but the we are in different jobs, and seeing those jobs from different perspectives - you would like to earn what I do - I would like to have the free time that you do but we must both face realities about the company that we work for and it’s aims. They want value for money, and they are going to get it whether we like it or not, and every employer out there now is exactly the same.

typical of the selfish im alright jack mentality, rhino do you realise you are full time but may have less service than some who are still waiting for full time, as for been there done that, doesnt that inspire you to make sure others that come after you dont have to struggle, not insist they go through the same, the purpose of union movements is to make sure we get the best we can for ALL and make sure those following BENEFIT from our struggle not go backwards as we would do if you had your way, now excuse me while i look for a small poor person to sweep my chimney