Come on Truth give us your thoughts

[wranglered]

too busy holed up in hotels with RM stitching you up!

[Big Daz]

shurly london will be going balistic about this deal?

As will the rest of the country!!!!

Im interested in everyones views on this from lands end to john o groats and all the those work on the islands surrounding the mainland, lets stop singling London out.

You never know the ammendments the PEC carried just might turn no votes into yes votes. Its the pro rata crap on DTD thats pushing me into the no camp, change that and Im willing to have a 2nd look. Perhaps the PEC will have voted to not accept pro rata? Any and I mean any PEC mbr who declares uport for pro rata on DTD will not get my vote in the PEC elections.

[Carnoustie]

Perhaps the PEC will have voted to not accept pro rata?

Even if they have voted not to accept the pro-rata bit, what difference does will that make ? It's IN THE AGREEMENT (you know, a deal that is signed up to by both sides).

How can they 'approve' an agreement, tell RM that it'll be put to a vote of the membership, and then suddenly go back to RM and say 'we want to change this, THIS, and that' ????

Aren't RM entitled to say (in polite language)
"Feck off, we've just spent 4 months negotiating, and now you tell us your members won't stomach the pro-rata bit ? How come you didn't know they wouldn't like it ? Just how bloody OUT-OF-TOUCH with them are you ?"

[axeman]

HQ did not instruct anyone to wait for a national ballot. Last years conference passed a motion to get as many units as possible balloted..... it is as Dingo says a pity that some chose to ignore this despite their reps voting for it at conference. I don't blame the members for this as they cannot act without information!

maybe a wrong choice of word by me (instruct) but was it not hq that put 'all requests' for strike action on the back burner until the national ballot which was pending happened ? or did i dream up that one too

[mailsort6]

Different sections of RM will vote differently at present delivery staff are not happy with the agreement. Mail centre workers, Distribution, Logistics, LAs might well be happy with the Agreement and vote it in. I was expecting more from this Agreement a proper shorter working week (35 or 37 hours per week, not 39 hours as suggested in the Agreement). If there are job losses RM wants to give us a rubbish redundancy package (look at the Amendments for the MTSF in Phase 1and 2). This Agreement treats delivery staff unfairly they deserve more.

[monkey76]

C'mon the truth, lovejoy, the dingo - let's be having you - or do you no longer want to be seen to be associated with it?

They have all been on here today, however , lets face it.....could you / would you defend the deal shown here

Maybe over the weekend it will change again into the final,final, no tricks now DEAL that will be MUCH, MUCH BETTER !

I forget precisely how many times dingo had us believe that that was absolutely the final offer - well you just have to wonder WTF the other offers looked like - in this one we take a pay cut - so in the others we must have been paying them to come to work

LMAO

[Big Daz]

Perhaps the PEC will have voted to not accept pro rata?

Even if they have voted not to accept the pro-rata bit, what difference does will that make ? It's IN THE AGREEMENT (you know, a deal that is signed up to by both sides).

How can they 'approve' an agreement, tell RM that it'll be put to a vote of the membership, and then suddenly go back to RM and say 'we want to change this, THIS, and that' ????

Aren't RM entitled to say (in polite language)
"Feck off, we've just spent 4 months negotiating, and now you tell us your members won't stomach the pro-rata bit ? How come you didn't know they wouldn't like it ? Just how bloody OUT-OF-TOUCH with them are you ?"

You a wee bit off track, the document which was posted on RMC was the document sent to the PEC for consideration, but dingo tells us the PEC did not accept the agreement as given to them and instead made clear what changes they want before the proposals can gain PEC approval. There is no agreement between RML and CWU untill the PEC say there is subject to membership approval via a democratic ballot.

The PEC if they have any sense will have instructed Dave Ward to alter the pro rata DTD to give everyone the same amount.

[fishtank]

Daz neither the PEC or Dave Ward have the power to alter anything.
All they can do is send it back to the negotiators with a note saying "please try a little harder".
If RM will not budge on the pro-rata issue then it is deal or bust.

[k979aaa]

Daz neither the PEC or Dave Ward have the power to alter anything.
All they can do is send it back to the negotiators with a note saying "please try a little harder".
If RM will not budge on the pro-rata issue then it is deal or bust.

Well it's a no go for me then NO DEAL!.

[Big Daz]

dingo wrote
"Two important amendments were carried at the PEC which will have a lot of revelance to the way I vote and the way the Branch"s who I cover vote. This will be published on Monday"

I would suggest if someone leaked this agreement to this site knowing there were two major amendments still to come then they were mischief making.

Good point fishtank

I did wonder what was going on when dingo said there were amendments. It appears we were given the document the PEC looked at but somehow whoever sent it to POSTAMN jumped the gun and sent it before PEC made the amendments or kept quiet on purpose or genuinley forgot to mention the amendments? I 'll you to decide which one is the truth.

Reading between the lines it seems without the amendments what ever they are it was likely to be a no vote from dingo and even a recomendation to vote no from london CWU officals.

The fact that the PEC has made these amendments and that they are described as important, leads me to wonder about the sanity of those who were negotiating on our behalf.

[Big Daz]

Daz neither the PEC or Dave Ward have the power to alter anything.
All they can do is send it back to the negotiators with a note saying "please try a little harder".
If RM will not budge on the pro-rata issue then it is deal or bust.

I see no reason why RM would not be willing to alter pro rata, but i suspect they would propose it being done within the same amount of money meaning a drop for FT in order to bring PT higher and also I suspect making the supplement for those who have DTD on their duties only. Just a different way of spreading the SAME amount of money about.

Your right with deal or bust, but only the PEC can decide if there is a deal not Wardy. I see it as the PEC being given proposals to form a national agreement, which they can then accept,amend or reject.

[BELIAL]

I would guess that the pro rata payment reflects the changes to duty structures that RM intend to introduce.
If the plan is for an evenish split pt/ft in delivery then pt duties will consist only of the outdoor element, therefore all D2D prep will be done by FT workers.
Like a lot of the stuff in this "agreement" it does depend on RM making huge time savings from sequenced mail.
I can't see any of this working. We save roughly 10 mins. prepping sequenced mail ;30% of our mail arrives unsorted , there just is not the spare capacity/time saving available to cope with this extra workload in my office.
Likewise with CDV's ,if they think they will save time on replenishment and conveyance they will be sadly disappointed, that time has already been saved via private car use and "creative" bag drops
All of which our union knows, but I'm not to sure if any local managers have come clean to their bosses ,so senior management might be in for the shock of their lives if these plans come to fruition

[spilie]

belial what prep would be involved in a single d2d coming in on a wednesday and to be delivered that day? are you suggesting that f/t staff will prep the d2d into the frame? and if say 3 are in on a monday will f/t staff bundle and prep d2d into framesfor p/t staff?

[Stormproof]

Even if they did alter the pro-rata status Daz it would still be a big NO vote for me, this agreement is more than just D2D's

[BELIAL]

belial what prep would be involved in a single d2d coming in on a wednesday and to be delivered that day? are you suggesting that f/t staff will prep the d2d into the frame? and if say 3 are in on a monday will f/t staff bundle and prep d2d into framesfor p/t staff?

I think that is RM's plan. I'd guess lots of pt's will never see the inside of a DO if RM get their way. Bags dropped to hand and the whole of the duty just delivering . Of course you would need a lot more vans.....hang on a sec ,but you would also need to get rid of the maximum delivery span....uh oh