The truth responds

[The truth!]

First things first no one has gone into hiding. Some of us have lifes outside of Royal Mail chat.

Now a lots have been said about me , lovejoy and dingo , as far as I can see we have given you valuable information over the last few months . Without us and a couple of others this site would have been very boring.

Now I think in my opinion who ever leaked the document to Postman was wrong. I hope their are no repcussions to that indivudual as a result. This document had many missed bits and there are in fact 91 pages not 90.

I will not respond until after the official annoucement and believe that will lauch a key debate in the union. However that debate is better had in the open with views expressed and respected on both sides. At this moment I am not in either camp , the yes or the no votes. There are a few more things which will come out. The briefing will be intresting this week.

Now a couple of things which I want to say , the pro rata issue is a complex issue as it is made up of two payments. door to door and shift payments ( there are no new money in this ) on one hand door to door is paid per item now , whereas the shift allowance is paid pro rata. If the new supplement is paid in full to a part timer as well as a full timer then as future pay rises increase the supplement the divisor between full time and part time pay will decrease thereby benefiting part timers ahead of full timers. The unions aim in the long term is to consolidate the amount in the supplement into basic pay.

Now a lot has been said about the fact that door to door items could increase to 7 , 8 or more. Surely thats what we want as that will help to protect full time jobs. Already there have been a couple of posters stating their doms have said they have to increase call rates to reflect door to door into workload which means extra hours. In addition if you get more into the office and you cant complete your delivery then you can claim protracted overtime or they have to pay some other hourage to get them completed.

Now I will wait until I have seen the full agreement along with the ammendments and have consulted with the members I represent. I suggust you all do the same the difference between a union and a indivdual is that you are stronger in a collective then you are on your own. I think at the moment if some of you want to oppose the agreement then you must influence your Branch.

I will give my comments to you after the Bounemouth briefing.

[Cut Off King]

I agree, wait until the full official document is released and then we'll know for sure...

HOWEVER, how ONE missing page is going to fundamentaly change the unofficial agreement that we have seen is beyond me !

And Fundimentaly changing is what we need, because anything like the unofficial document is NOT going to get the thumbs up from the members.

[AnotherLimey]

But i do not want to protect fulltime jobs by taking more work for a pay cut, selfish but true.

This week i got £21.48 DD and £12.37 early morning allowance total being £33.85, If the £20.60 is true i will be down by £13.25 a week and doing double the leaflets for the trouble

And not matter how you put it the pro rata payment for partimers is a disgrace.

[Godric]

Now a lot has been said about the fact that door to door items could increase to 7 , 8 or more. Surely thats what we want as that will help to protect full time jobs.

you are so out of reality it beggars belief, we are struggling with 3 lots of d2ds as it is and you think giving us up to 5 more loads to deal with is the way forward for much less money than 3, when was the last time you done a walk duty ?? do you not realise we are working with heavier workloads than ever, maybe you should try it and see how it is

[smokerjim]

Now a couple of things which I want to say , the pro rata issue is a complex issue as it is made up of two payments. door to door and shift payments ( there are no new money in this ) on one hand door to door is paid per item now , whereas the shift allowance is paid pro rata. If the new supplement is paid in full to a part timer as well as a full timer then as future pay rises increase the supplement the divisor between full time and part time pay will decrease thereby benefiting part timers ahead of full timers. The unions aim in the long term is to consolidate the amount in the supplement into basic pay.

Now a lot has been said about the fact that door to door items could increase to 7 , 8 or more. Surely thats what we want as that will help to protect full time jobs. Already there have been a couple of posters stating their doms have said they have to increase call rates to reflect door to door into workload which means extra hours. In addition if you get more into the office and you cant complete your delivery then you can claim protracted overtime or they have to pay some other hourage to get them completed.

1st - The unit price we get for d2ds have not increased - when is the last time anything economic stayed static for near on 20 years? Not my bills and costs.

2nd - There will be no recognition to the weight we will have to carry - it'll be bad enough carrying 6+ d2ds that we would get for 1.67p each now......what if 3 or more of them are worth 3.5p now? Instead of earning <£45 for 3 X 3.5p d2ds now, I'd be getting ( £20.60 - £10.82ESA )....where is the sense in that?

And don't give that old guff about cutting off or booking OT....how many people have come on here and said "I'm new to RM, PT, and feel pressured by my DOM to work OT, even though I'm too tired / have childcare issues / whatever" At present, it looks as if the union will leave EVERYBODY to fend for themselves - if you have a strong union office with a good rep, you'll be ok, but if you don't, "well, s**t happens & better luck next time".

[labbloke]

Now a couple of things which I want to say , the pro rata issue is a complex issue as it is made up of two payments. door to door and shift payments ( there are no new money in this ) on one hand door to door is paid per item now , whereas the shift allowance is paid pro rata. If the new supplement is paid in full to a part timer as well as a full timer then as future pay rises increase the supplement the divisor between full time and part time pay will decrease thereby benefiting part timers ahead of full timers. The unions aim in the long term is to consolidate the amount in the supplement into basic pay.

Very poor indeed, if thats the reason why P/T like me are going to lose money we can ill afford to lose.

Basically in plain english what you are saying, is that the PEC and negotiating team agreed that it was right to allow P/T to lose money, because the pay gap between them and F/T will narrow by 7% over the next 3 years (supplement only).

This will not and would never affect F/T and is just a cheap dig at poorly paid workers.

Shame on you all. I doubt many of you can even spell the word comradeship.

[fishtank]

I agree, wait until the full official document is released and then we'll know for sure...

HOWEVER, how ONE missing page is going to fundamentaly change the unofficial agreement that we have seen is beyond me !

And Fundimentaly changing is what we need, because anything like the unofficial document is NOT going to get the thumbs up from the members.

Well having read and re-read the "unofficial" version i find it a very strange document.
It would appear to focus far more on the CWUs position in the workplace than the members interests therein.
Having only read it three or four times i may have missed a few key points.
It does appear even woollier than 2007 and that is not a good sign but maybe they have tightened it up since tuesday.

[Stormproof]

I agree, wait until the full official document is released and then we'll know for sure...

HOWEVER, how ONE missing page is going to fundamentaly change the unofficial agreement that we have seen is beyond me !

And Fundimentaly changing is what we need, because anything like the unofficial document is NOT going to get the thumbs up from the members.

Well having read and re-read the "unofficial" version i find it a very strange document.
It would appear to focus far more on the CWUs position in the workplace than the members interests therein.
Having only read it three or four times i may have missed a few key points.
It does appear even woollier than 2007 and that is not a good sign but maybe they have tightened it up since tuesday.

I too thought the same, it looks like all they are interested in is keeping the CWU in the workplace whether it benefits us or not.

[col456xyz]

been working out my wages over last year
with new deal in place i will be £520 a year worse off ,this is taken in to account d2d ,wage rise etc
indoor workers in my office and drivers in my del office will be atleast £1560 a year better off
p/t in my office who i feel sorry for will be even worse off
i am waiting to see the full deal until i make my mind up but if it is true what then...

vote no and it comes in anyway
vote yes and you vote for a pay cut
i myself will take whatever but i will not be in the union anymore so will atleast gain £ 151.32 a year
if this is my deal with the unions help ,could i do worse on my own

[tojobevred]

time for change
so out of touch
just say no
roll on pec elections
better still lets form a new union
time to resign

[welshy808]

Now a couple of things which I want to say , the pro rata issue is a complex issue as it is made up of two payments. door to door and shift payments ( there are no new money in this ) on one hand door to door is paid per item now , whereas the shift allowance is paid pro rata. If the new supplement is paid in full to a part timer as well as a full timer then as future pay rises increase the supplement the divisor between full time and part time pay will decrease thereby benefiting part timers ahead of full timers. The unions aim in the long term is to consolidate the amount in the supplement into basic pay.

Now a lot has been said about the fact that door to door items could increase to 7 , 8 or more. Surely thats what we want as that will help to protect full time jobs. Already there have been a couple of posters stating their doms have said they have to increase call rates to reflect door to door into workload which means extra hours. In addition if you get more into the office and you cant complete your delivery then you can claim protracted overtime or they have to pay some other hourage to get them completed.

How do you expect us to believe that the pro rata issue is so complicated that it could not be sorted in 4 months.

If Royal Mail said there is no new money are we supposed to believe that the companies who are having item 4, 5 and 6 delivered are not paying royal mail, obviously there will be new money.

The negotiators should have never agreed to take the shift allowances into account then the Pro Rata issue would not have come up and a payment for 6 items a week would not look so bad to those who have to deliver them. Members would not be losing out £12 every week so the pay rise would really be a pay rise.

The lump sums should not be held up as some great deal as it is money Royal Mail has all ready promised us.

The shorter working week is a start but does not go any where near far enough.

Later Saturdays are simply a no no as the polls on this forum and questions by area reps would have shown .

D2d into work load is great in theory but bully boy managers will just ignore that.

Please explain how a couple of amendments is going to fix this Agreement, unless Page 91 starts with the words "ignore every thing written on pages 1 to 90", then it wont make a bit difference to the agreement.

I have been in this Union since I started 15 years ago, I have always thought that it tried to make my life as a OPG better, now i am so disillusioned by this piece of crap you call an Agreement that I will be actively promoting a no vote and pushing for my branch to put forward a vote of no confidence in Dave Ward and all other members of the negotiating team.

[tojobevred]

Now a couple of things which I want to say , the pro rata issue is a complex issue as it is made up of two payments. door to door and shift payments ( there are no new money in this ) on one hand door to door is paid per item now , whereas the shift allowance is paid pro rata. If the new supplement is paid in full to a part timer as well as a full timer then as future pay rises increase the supplement the divisor between full time and part time pay will decrease thereby benefiting part timers ahead of full timers. The unions aim in the long term is to consolidate the amount in the supplement into basic pay.

Now a lot has been said about the fact that door to door items could increase to 7 , 8 or more. Surely thats what we want as that will help to protect full time jobs. Already there have been a couple of posters stating their doms have said they have to increase call rates to reflect door to door into workload which means extra hours. In addition if you get more into the office and you cant complete your delivery then you can claim protracted overtime or they have to pay some other hourage to get them completed.

How do you expect us to believe that the pro rata issue is so complicated that it could not be sorted in 4 months.

well said i agree
If Royal Mail said there is no new money are we supposed to believe that the companies who are having item 4, 5 and 6 delivered are not paying royal mail, obviously there will be new money.

The negotiators should have never agreed to take the shift allowances into account then the Pro Rata issue would not have come up and a payment for 6 items a week would not look so bad to those who have to deliver them. Members would not be losing out £12 every week so the pay rise would really be a pay rise.

The lump sums should not be held up as some great deal as it is money Royal Mail has all ready promised us.

The shorter working week is a start but does not go any where near far enough.

Later Saturdays are simply a no no as the polls on this forum and questions by area reps would have shown .

D2d into work load is great in theory but bully boy managers will just ignore that.

Please explain how a couple of amendments is going to fix this Agreement, unless Page 91 starts with the words "ignore every thing written on pages 1 to 90", then it wont make a bit difference to the agreement.

I have been in this Union since I started 15 years ago, I have always thought that it tried to make my life as a OPG better, now i am so disillusioned by this piece of crap you call an Agreement that I will be actively promoting a no vote and pushing for my branch to put forward a vote of no confidence in Dave Ward and all other members of the negotiating team.

[rhino49]

Now a couple of things which I want to say , the pro rata issue is a complex issue as it is made up of two payments. door to door and shift payments ( there are no new money in this ) on one hand door to door is paid per item now , whereas the shift allowance is paid pro rata. If the new supplement is paid in full to a part timer as well as a full timer then as future pay rises increase the supplement the divisor between full time and part time pay will decrease thereby benefiting part timers ahead of full timers. The unions aim in the long term is to consolidate the amount in the supplement into basic pay.

Very poor indeed, if thats the reason why P/T like me are going to lose money we can ill afford to lose.

Basically in plain english what you are saying, is that the PEC and negotiating team agreed that it was right to allow P/T to lose money, because the pay gap between them and F/T will narrow by 7% over the next 3 years (supplement only).

This will not and would never affect F/T and is just a cheap dig at poorly paid workers.

Shame on you all. I doubt many of you can even spell the word comradeship.

With respect Labbloke - you are not "poorly" paid - you are proportionately paid for the number of hours you work, at the same hourly rate as the rest of us which is somewhat higher than the minimum wage. There is a simple - solution work more hours for RM when you have the opportunity or move to a full time job that will pay you more overall, but probably less as an hourly rate, but please don't complain about preferential treatment when the FT staff will in fact lose a lot more than you in this deal, i.e. the other allowances that we have earnt and you don't qualify for because you are still in bed while we are working.

[labbloke]

Unfortunately your answer is the prevailing view of many people in all workplaces.

I'm alright jack, Dont care about you or your circumstances.

Perhaps you will take the time to read this site about how available F/T jobs are in RM.

I would love to be F/T, but to inform you if you dont realise, RM are not taking any more F/T on.

As for your ascertation that I am in bed and should do more overtime, how dare you.

I manage to scrape two hours o/t a week if I am lucky,

Your opening statement about showing respect, shows just how little you have.

BTW, I receive £170 a week, try living on that, I would gladly change with you.

[LouBarlow]

Unfortunately your answer is the prevailing view of many people in all workplaces.

I'm alright jack, Dont care about you or your circumstances.

Perhaps you will take the time to read this site about how available F/T jobs are in RM.

I would love to be F/T, but to inform you if you dont realise, RM are not taking any more F/T on.

As for your ascertation that I am in bed and should do more overtime, how dare you.

I manage to scrape two hours o/t a week if I am lucky,

Your opening statement about showing respect, shows just how little you have.

BTW, I receive £170 a week, try living on that, I would gladly change with you.

I'd ignore him to be honest as judging by his other posts re part-timers, he is one of those bitter long-term full-timers, who looks down on part-timers like they are dirt. He even suggests elsewhere that you guys should be doing sorting for free, would you believe. Rest assured we don't all think the same way. We need solidarity not division.