Come on Truth give us your thoughts

[dvbuk55]

P&M 2007 was accepted and that has been a disaster for membership levels.
I see nothing in this draft be it final or not that will reverse that trend.

75/25 FT split

agreed revision tools

Shorter working week

D2D into workload

All things that will protect jobs.

The agreement is massive but my fear is two things will swing the vote. Majority of those voting yes will do so to avoid more action and just look at lump sums whilst those voting no will be based on the delivery supplement.

Very few will vote on basis of reading whole document will they!?

Massive is the right word if you are describing the scale of the sell out.

1. It DOESN'T say it WILL be a 75/25 split it is the proposed NATIONAL level. It does say those on FT will be able to keep those hours if they wish and so will PT - it does not say there will be any scope for PT to go to FT if FT should leave and that already makes a mockery of 75/25 in addition to which many offices are already well below the proposed National Average ours is approximately 60/40 now and in the event of FT leaving or buying down that ratio will increase. There has not been a full time position here in 3 years.

2. Agreed revision tools AFTER the agreement is voted on and then agreed as necessary for revision at local level.

3. 12 minutes a day is indeed a shorter working week.

4. D2D into work load, at a reduced rate, which will do absolutely........

5. NOTHING to protect FT jobs in the long term which has been touted as the deal maker and yet the CWU concede there is a need to slim the operation.

6. The lump sums are nothing, they are merely what we would have got under colleague share, and indeed the loss on D2D and in some cases grandfather rights will more than pay for those, so in effect we are financing the whole deal from money which we already get. The CWU negotiators need to go to Adult learning classes for basic arithmetic if they truly believe we are gaining anything at all from this agreement.

You personally deserve some credit for actually maintaining the front that this is a good deal.

[OnAFlyer]

P&M 2007 was accepted and that has been a disaster for membership levels.
I see nothing in this draft be it final or not that will reverse that trend.

75/25 FT split

agreed revision tools

Shorter working week

D2D into workload

All things that will protect jobs.

The agreement is massive but my fear is two things will swing the vote. Majority of those voting yes will do so to avoid more action and just look at lump sums whilst those voting no will be based on the delivery supplement.

Very few will vote on basis of reading whole document will they!?

I've read it all, and it's a complete embarrassment to the CWU IMO.

6 day standardised week, with the last letter at 3pm inc Saturdays.

D2D 52 weeks of the year, in unlimited numbers and for £8-£14 a week once you take off shift allowance.

Pro rata for PT staff which to be quite frank is absolutely disgusting.

A D2D product targeted at a specific day, inc Saturdays.

£400 'Lump sum' on a yes vote is the colleague share divided, just paid early!

£1000 lump sum actually is in 3 parts depending on office revisions and is also our own share money.

2%, 1.4% and 3.5% pay rises over the next 3 years - meaning our pay in 2012-2013 will be around £393 a week inc the supplement. I get £383 a week now with 3 lots of D2D and those on £12 shift allowance and 600ish drops get £390.

Take into account no pay rise last year and that means we'd get a near as damn it 4 year pay freeze.

How much negotiating did it take to get RM to agree to these? What were the CWU doing for 4 months? Dave Ward really did wring every penny out of them didn't he. 'Rewarded for change' indeed

[fishtank]

Well it is a large document lovejoy but statements like this do not fill me with confidence.

"We want to bring everybodys actual performance up to the level of the top 10%"

For a union to allow this statement in any document is ludicrous.

Every agreement we've ever had is filled with stuff like this and increased efficiency etc.

RM want us to the top 10% ,...... RM wanted us to all work at 100 EP, they wanted us to work at 100 BSI, the list goes on.

I won't be casting my vote based on what RM 'want'........... if pay etc was linked to it then that would be a different matter

What are you telling me Lovejoy.
I should just ignore the bits RM wants and only vote on the basis of pay.
Many made the mistake of not paying attention to the small detail last time.
This time it is important there are no nasty little surprises in store IF this agreement is accepted.

[lovejoy]

Well it is a large document lovejoy but statements like this do not fill me with confidence.

"We want to bring everybodys actual performance up to the level of the top 10%"

For a union to allow this statement in any document is ludicrous.

Every agreement we've ever had is filled with stuff like this and increased efficiency etc.

RM want us to the top 10% ,...... RM wanted us to all work at 100 EP, they wanted us to work at 100 BSI, the list goes on.

I won't be casting my vote based on what RM 'want'........... if pay etc was linked to it then that would be a different matter

What are you telling me Lovejoy.
I should just ignore the bits RM wants and only vote on the basis of pay.
Many made the mistake of not paying attention to the small detail last time.
This time it is important there are no nasty little surprises in store IF this agreement is accepted.

I am not telling you that at all..... you raised something you saw as an issue and I said I didnt agree... no big deal.

[lovejoy]

P&M 2007 was accepted and that has been a disaster for membership levels.
I see nothing in this draft be it final or not that will reverse that trend.

75/25 FT split

agreed revision tools

Shorter working week

D2D into workload

All things that will protect jobs.

The agreement is massive but my fear is two things will swing the vote. Majority of those voting yes will do so to avoid more action and just look at lump sums whilst those voting no will be based on the delivery supplement.

Very few will vote on basis of reading whole document will they!?

You personally deserve some credit for actually maintaining the front that this is a good deal.

No you deserve the credit for twisting what I have said to elude that I support the deal......... I will read, digest and make my own decision when the official doc is released... as I am sure you will

[MinisterofCucumber]

I am in a position to table a motion to my branch which could go to conference........... you or any other member can do the same!

Unfortunately, my branch secretary does not reply to my emails and I work a late shift and am unable to attend branch meetings.

Would you mind tabling a motion banning union representatives from being members of any political parties?

Thanks a lot.

[Cut Off King]

The TRUTH & DINGO have been browsing this site again today, but only LOVEJOY has had the courtesy to answer quetions about the agreement

[lovejoy]

I am in a position to table a motion to my branch which could go to conference........... you or any other member can do the same!

Unfortunately, my branch secretary does not reply to my emails and I work a late shift and am unable to attend branch meetings.

Would you mind tabling a motion banning union representatives from being members of any political parties?

Thanks a lot.

Well general conference motion deadline is passed mate....... put in a motion to your next agm! write to your branch sec and maybe copy in your local/area reps so they know you have sent it.... ask for a receipt aswell if you have worries about it not being noted!

[el_cartero]

read and digest.

carrots for dinner.

[saru]

Don't shoot the messenger. Lovejoy has been a valuable source of info on this forum for several years. I have found him to be fair & impartial & quick to pass any info on.

I read through the agreement & thank God I'm out of it (I now work in the private sector & expect to get shafted ) I feel sorry for you guys, but the majority of the workforce won't see any further than the next lump sum......then moan about the extra work when it's spent

Realistically, I don't think any of you expected this deal to be good. All I can say is good luck....& there is a life outside RM. I now work longer hours, but I'm less tired & stressed than I was working for that shower.

[lovejoy]

The TRUTH & DINGO have been browsing this site again today, but only LOVEJOY has had the courtesy to answer quetions about the agreement

It is Saturday night... those boys/girls may have lifes??? I can't say mrs lovejoy is too happy with me sat here at the computer

[gb93]

Praise for the front to carry on and try and sell this agreement as a good deal lovejoy but after your last few posts maybe it is better you go into hiding like the other 2.

Are you just a messenger after all, going by your last few posts maybe not .

[fishtank]

The TRUTH & DINGO have been browsing this site again today, but only LOVEJOY has had the courtesy to answer quetions about the agreement

TBH there is nothing i would like to ask those two/one whatever.
It would just mean another long winded post about........something i didn't ask in the first place.

[dvbuk55]

Two things in the previous posts made me wonder.

One was Dave Ward wringing every penny out of Royal Mail yes I had to have a laugh at that because it would seem to be that they have actually wrung every penny out of us, so Adam will have no problem in picking up his £2million golden goodbye.

The second was the 11,000 vans parked in a field that lovejoy says Royal Mail aren't going to send back - well if people won't drive them, they either will send them back or let them rot in the field.

I would imagine these blokes play poker with their cards facing the opposition - here is an opportunity to make hay - hey we've got 11k vans here CWU - right well you're obviously not going to send them back so we'll come up with the CDV idea - which in the meantime has become better known as Park and Loop, now with a golf trolley, so with weight off the shoulder, (a good thing), you can now do not 10/20 minute loops but 40 minute loops.

Cut a long story short instead of going along with every god damned thing Royal Mail want they should have said we have no problem in driving those vehicles dearies, WE JUST WANT PAYING FOR IT.

More door to doors, not a problem sweetie pie, bring em on BUT WE JUST WANT PAYING FOR 'EM.

[lovejoy]

Praise for the front to carry on and try and sell this agreement as a good deal lovejoy but after your last few posts maybe it is better you go into hiding like the other 2.

Are you just a messenger after all, going by your last few posts maybe not .

There you go again stating that I am for any deal... read my posts as I am fed of repeating myself...