Come on Truth give us your thoughts

[dvbuk55]

Well I don't know what the opposite of dogs bollocks is

Cat flaps

No! Don't you encourage him - we both know what he really meant - the bad person

[k979aaa]

Well I don't know what the opposite of dogs bollocks is

Cat flaps

PUSSIES!.

[dvbuk55]

Well I don't know what the opposite of dogs bollocks is

Cat flaps

PUSSIES!.

You go and stand in the corner and you'll be going to bed without your supper tonight

[lovejoy]

Well I don't know what the opposite of dogs bollocks is

Cat flaps

PUSSIES!.

You go and stand in the corner and you'll be going to bed without your supper tonight

I am here (briefly) - got to cook the daughters tea then have a few ales!

I am awaiting the press Conference on Monday, then when the official doc is released I will have a couple of good reads then make my own judgements based on context, where we started/ended, and the whole picture.

I can't say I am happy with some sections of the proposals but we were never going to get 90plus pages of bliss were we?

I'll say one thing though............. Its no good sitting on a PC gobbing off (not aimed at you dvbuk)... make sure your branch gets Dave Ward, an officer or someone from the PEC to a mass members meeting. These are where votes are won and lost.

You can then listen, have your say then make your own judgement. This site does not have the power to swing any vote - proven in 2007

[dvbuk55]

Well I don't know what the opposite of dogs bollocks is

Cat flaps

PUSSIES!.

You go and stand in the corner and you'll be going to bed without your supper tonight

I am here (briefly) - got to cook the daughters tea then have a few ales!

I am awaiting the press Conference on Monday, then when the official doc is released I will have a couple of good reads then make my own judgements based on context, where we started/ended, and the whole picture.

I can't say I am happy with some sections of the proposals but we were never going to get 90plus pages of bliss were we?

I'll say one thing though............. Its no good sitting on a PC gobbing off (not aimed at you dvbuk)... make sure your branch gets Dave Ward, an officer or someone from the PEC to a mass members meeting. These are where votes are won and lost.

You can then listen, have your say then make your own judgement. This site does not have the power to swing any vote - proven in 2007

You could be right there lovejoy but I can say there is a great deal more interest in this agreement and its ramifications and although only a forum - it is made up of people spread far and wide who are not afraid of spreading the word.

Lovejoy it wouldn't matter if Dave Ward dressed as Moses with two tablets of stone came down from the Ivory Tower of HQ he couldn't sell this deal in a million years. This isn't an agreement of give and take it is a carte blanche for Royal Mail to continue as before and pay us even less money without any of the promised safeguards.

If I was Ward and Co I'd be looking for somewhere to hide, bullshit and bluster only go so far and as the old saying goes you can fool some of the people et seq, It's by no means certain that this deal will go through and many people will be advocating a no vote on the strength of what is written in this "leaked" document however if it does there won't be a union to speak of.

Exactly what contingency plans have been made for a return to industrial action because as sure as eggs are eggs we are heading for a rerun of the last agreement.

[gb93]

Lovejoy are you and in the know buddies living in a different world to the ordinary members.These talks have been well leaked before the agreement was reached telling us about the deal of the century and i certainly believed 1 or 2 of you was well informed and knew what was going on.I believe you know what the agreement is and the fact that no denials have been issued over the agreement that was posted on here earlier leaves nothing to the imagination to me.And even worse i get the impression it is still being treated to spin to have us believe it aint that bad.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Lovejoy,

The union will try to sell this deal on the assertion that management can bring in change without agreement if they want to.

Please explain how this works.

[lovejoy]

Lovejoy,

The union will try to sell this deal on the assertion that management can bring in change without agreement if they want to.

Please explain how this works.

Well the fact that they took executive action in over 400 units last year and more than half did nothing to oppose it shows this can be done!!

The haven't invested hundreds of millions on vehicles, methods and sequencing for the machinery to just sit there have they!?

[lovejoy]

Lovejoy are you and in the know buddies living in a different world to the ordinary members.These talks have been well leaked before the agreement was reached telling us about the deal of the century and i certainly believed 1 or 2 of you was well informed and knew what was going on.I believe you know what the agreement is and the fact that no denials have been issued over the agreement that was posted on here earlier leaves nothing to the imagination to me.And even worse i get the impression it is still being treated to spin to have us believe it aint that bad.

I am a member, I walk the streets and when Royal Mail changed my duties last year I took local strike action.

I haven't even said I will support the agreement - My branch is proactive.... I have emailed my branch secretary to ask for a national speaker at a meeting. I will go, listen, question, take in document then make my own mind up

[lovejoy]

You could be right there lovejoy but I can say there is a great deal more interest in this agreement and its ramifications and although only a forum - it is made up of people spread far and wide who are not afraid of spreading the word.

Lovejoy it wouldn't matter if Dave Ward dressed as Moses with two tablets of stone came down from the Ivory Tower of HQ he couldn't sell this deal in a million years. This isn't an agreement of give and take it is a carte blanche for Royal Mail to continue as before and pay us even less money without any of the promised safeguards.

If I was Ward and Co I'd be looking for somewhere to hide, bullshit and bluster only go so far and as the old saying goes you can fool some of the people et seq, It's by no means certain that this deal will go through and many people will be advocating a no vote on the strength of what is written in this "leaked" document however if it does there won't be a union to speak of.

Exactly what contingency plans have been made for a return to industrial action because as sure as eggs are eggs we are heading for a rerun of the last agreement.[/quote]

I never said the deal was certain to go through..... I just said this site will have minimul say in vote. National comms, branch comms, meetings, national briefings, etc will be the key.

[BELIAL]

Lovejoy,

The union will try to sell this deal on the assertion that management can bring in change without agreement if they want to.

Please explain how this works.

Well the fact that they took executive action in over 400 units last year and more than half did nothing to oppose it shows this can be done!!

The haven't invested hundreds of millions on vehicles, methods and sequencing for the machinery to just sit there have they!?

You might want to edit that,because it makes the concept of a national union look at best ineffectual and at worst irrelevant. FFs lets not do managements dirty work for them just to win a point

[gb93]

Well thanks for the quick reply lovejoy even though i dont think it was an answer to the points i was making.

But at least you havent gone into complete hiding over the last couple of days unlike the other 2 "reliable sources".

Still no denials yet so still believin leaked agreement was kosher.

[BELIAL]

This site does not have the power to swing any vote - proven in 2007

Shame though ,cos look where we are now

[fishtank]

I have to say i admire you for sticking your head above the trench Lovejoy.
I am however more worried for the union if this agreement is accepted.
I don't believe HQ is looking at the big picture at all.
P&M 2007 was accepted and that has been a disaster for membership levels.
I see nothing in this draft be it final or not that will reverse that trend.

[axeman]

And people have become wiser to the antics of the union and royal fail since p&m 2007 we know we were tucked up good and proper, this time however i think it will be different if the final draft is not radicaly different from the leaked document and i personaly don't think it is , the vote i belive will be a resounding NO i for one will be casting a NO