Wait for the agreement

[The truth!]

I have read some stuff on here which I could answer and correct but I think that would cause a long debate when in reality within a the next week or so you can jude the agreement for yourself based on the words.

However I do believe it is correct to state the following.

Royal Mail Finances - We can all have a go at criticising the company for its past failures and I have done so on countless occasions. But the facts are if Royal Mail was a private company it would be insolvent. Yes we can shout thats down to the pension crisis , unfair competition etc. However those are the cards which the employer has to deal with at this moment. Royal Mail have decided to go ahead with a massive change programme which is the biggest change programme of any industry. Royal Mail attempted to do that change without the union. As a result of local industrial action and national action , this union forced Royal Mail into negotiating this national agreement. The CWU have forced the employer in an agreement which signifcantly adds to their costs over the next 3 years. Quite rightly you will judge whether those benefits and the package is good enough. But dont underestimate what we have all achieved by striking.

Door to Door - The union had a choice. The union either decided to protect full time jobs by including door to door into workload or they decided to allow Royal Mail attack full time jobs when walk sequencing comes on stream. Remember TNT in Holland and Deutsche Post in Germany when they introduced walk sequencing the amount of part timers increased to over 60% of the total work force. At the moment in the UK the figure is 21%.

Royal Mail in 2009/2010 turned down 40 million of revenue due to the fact there is a cap of items on door to door and this is without relaunching the Door to Door product. There is no prospect of Royal Mail continuing to turn down that revenue. In any case what responsible union would want to turn down work which could pay our wages in the future.

With regards to door to door , Royal Mail believe putting it into workload will cost them in the region of 45 million in extra hours due to the work being put into workload. Door to Door quality is patchy in various areas not all places get 3 items , not all walks within an office get 3 as companies can now target postcodes. So whilst I accept that some will believe it is wrong to put door to door into workload , I personally think you cannot continue to allow Royal Mail to cut full time jobs but have a growing product being down in a mix mash of a manner.

I think it is inevitable that some people may lose on door to door in the short term, but there are two things to say on this subject , one is that we have to protect full time jobs and then secondly this supplement will be increased in future pay rises in comparison to the fact we have not had an increase on door 2 door since 1994.

On the early shift allowance, well there is £ 28 million being paid out in these allowances, this figure is down on the 2007 figure and will continue to reduce as no one in the future who either joins Royal Mail or who is in Royal Mail who decides to do that shift will recieve it. So everyone who leaves who is in reciept of that money then that money simply goes to the employer. The unions decision to put that money into a supplement not only protects that money but also allows for that to be increased in line with future rises. I saw the fishtanks comment that a motion said it should go into basic pay. Well you cant do it as not everyone in deliveries recieves it or in mail centres so if you put it into basic pay you would have individuals on different pay right across Royal Mail.

Saturdays - I think everyone realises this is a massive issue. But the question everyone needs to answer is do you finish right at the end of your duty now on a Saturday ? Not everyone will have to work later than now as a significant number already work later on Saturdays. Plus some units will be very close to the walk sequencing site and can collect their work as each batch of work is done . In addition there is other ways which can mean you can finish earlier on Saturdays. However for some longer saturdays will be a reality. Thats why the union has asked for less Saturdays and why a menu of options will be worked up. However one last thing when the union agreed under SDD for earlier Saturdays it was on the basis of not doing mailsort 3. However now mail sort 3 has reduced due to downstream access and Saturdays traffic levels in most delivery offices is on a par with Wednesday yet a lot of offices have an early finish. Yes I know that people may go faster on Saturdays but please dont think that that observation has not been lost by the bean counters in Royal Mail.

So these are some of the things which people need to consider when they read the agreement. Of course if the PEC endorse it.

[donut]

The truth....has monkeyboy got the facts ??

[belle smith]

IRoyal Mail Finances - We can all have a go at criticising the company for its past failures and I have done so on countless occasions. But the facts are if Royal Mail was a private company it would be insolvent. Yes we can shout thats down to the pension crisis , unfair competition etc.

I think that the union could, and should, have shouted a whole lot louder on both these subjects. Largely as the 'however' is that the liability for these issues is being passed onto the employees.

Delivery spans and performance standerds are an issue as well, if the union hasn't gained meaningful consessions on RM's unrealistic performance standards, or if we have longer delivery spans, then many members will have no option but to vote no as they will not be physically capable of doing their job.

[Dogs of War]

So my early shift allowance is going to be a part of the D2D supplement?

[POSTMAN]

Royal Mail believe putting it into workload will cost them in the region of 45 million in extra hours due to the work being put into workload

What extra hrs,i've said it before not a single duty in the UK will change for the better with this,'we already have them in our workload',and that will be the buzz quote in offices up and down the UK.

Or have i missed something?

[belle smith]

So my early shift allowance is going to be a part of the D2D supplement?

The mistake was made with the early shift allowance in 2007, this is just making the best of things as they currently stand. Although I should add i've already lost mine so this would be to my advantage.

[belle smith]

Royal Mail believe putting it into workload will cost them in the region of 45 million in extra hours due to the work being put into workload

What extra hrs,i've said it before not a single duty in the UK will change for the better with this,'we already have them in our workload',and that will be the buzz quote in offices up and down the UK.

Or have i missed something?

I certainly treat them as part of my workload, I do know of people who take them home to make them up though....more fool them.

[The truth!]

IRoyal Mail Finances - We can all have a go at criticising the company for its past failures and I have done so on countless occasions. But the facts are if Royal Mail was a private company it would be insolvent. Yes we can shout thats down to the pension crisis , unfair competition etc.

I think that the union could, and should, have shouted a whole lot louder on both these subjects. Largely as the 'however' is that the liability for these issues is being passed onto the employees.

Delivery spans and performance standerds are an issue as well, if the union hasn't gained meaningful consessions on RM's unrealistic performance standards, or if we have longer delivery spans, then many members will have no option but to vote no as they will not be physically capable of doing their job.

The issue of agreed standards will be agreed. In terms of longer spans well the union had a 3.5 hour span but offices decided they wanted to go past that in order to protect jobs. The union could list over a hundred offices who not by executive action but by agreement chose to go past 3.5 hours. I think local offices should choose the spans based on the facts of how many hours that then delivers in your office and the mix of full and part time and of course how your delivery is going to be done ie car derived vans , HCT or HCT plus. I dont think without those models that delivery spans can work.

[MinisterofCucumber]

So the strike has resulted in a worsening of terms and conditions.

Now I see what Crozier meant when he said, "If you vote for a strike, a strike is what you will get."

He meant a strike, as in a smack in the face.

[fishtank]

the truth wrote
On the early shift allowance, well there is £ 28 million being paid out in these allowances, this figure is down on the 2007 figure and will continue to reduce as no one in the future who either joins Royal Mail or who is in Royal Mail who decides to do that shift will recieve it. So everyone who leaves who is in reciept of that money then that money simply goes to the employer. The unions decision to put that money into a supplement not only protects that money but also allows for that to be increased in line with future rises. I saw the fishtanks comment that a motion said it should go into basic pay. Well you cant do it as not everyone in deliveries recieves it or in mail centres so if you put it into basic pay you would have individuals on different pay right across Royal Mail.



You could use exactly the same argument with drivers allowance but have chosen not to.
Will this not result in individuals on different pay right across Royal Mail?

[belle smith]

IRoyal Mail Finances - We can all have a go at criticising the company for its past failures and I have done so on countless occasions. But the facts are if Royal Mail was a private company it would be insolvent. Yes we can shout thats down to the pension crisis , unfair competition etc.

I think that the union could, and should, have shouted a whole lot louder on both these subjects. Largely as the 'however' is that the liability for these issues is being passed onto the employees.

Delivery spans and performance standerds are an issue as well, if the union hasn't gained meaningful consessions on RM's unrealistic performance standards, or if we have longer delivery spans, then many members will have no option but to vote no as they will not be physically capable of doing their job.

The issue of agreed standards will be agreed. In terms of longer spans well the union had a 3.5 hour span but offices decided they wanted to go past that in order to protect jobs. The union could list over a hundred offices who not by executive action but by agreement chose to go past 3.5 hours. I think local offices should choose the spans based on the facts of how many hours that then delivers in your office and the mix of full and part time and of course how your delivery is going to be done ie car derived vans , HCT or HCT plus. I dont think without those models that delivery spans can work.

I'm glad to hear the standards will be agreed. It would depend on what these standards are though. I appreciate that you can't go into specifics on that just now and in any event we will be able to see them for our self soon enough.

We were certainly offerd longer delivery spans for more f/t staffs, but we refused.
I accept that with the current operation of deliveries as opposed to the 2003 operation then the only way of safe gaurding f/t work would be increasing delivery spans.

However just to run through the cumlative effect of the last few years.
in 2003 we had (achievable) 2.5hr delivery spans and a retierment age of 60 to....
now when we have (unachievable) 3.5hr delivery spans and a retierment age of 65
if delivery spans increase to say 4hrs or 4.5hrs or even 5hrs with a retierment age of 65 Then i reiterate i do not know of many or even any people who are physically able to do this, with or without vans HCT or HCT plus.

ps. thankyou for the update. i know that this deal or any deal is not what you dingo or lovejoy would come up with given a blank piece of paper, and your support, if indeed you do support of it is a result of realpolitics.

[POSTMAN GATTUSO]

Guess what this is it its time 2 stand up do whats right the bonus f..k o.f its your jobs w...rs fkn fight 4 your rights or get out next stop its that smarmy bampot cameron privatise waKE UP WEE WILL FIGHT THEM ON THE TRENCHES BAZ :cfo :mfo

[Night Tonic]

And all the way to the job centre. Yes, good one

[steven100]

Our union should be saving our Saturday early finish. Everyone needs a social life, RM/CWU don't screw our social life up, it may just come back to haunt you both.

[OnAFlyer]

Our union should be saving our Saturday early finish. Everyone needs a social life, RM/CWU don't screw our social life up, it may just come back to haunt you both.

We haven't got a leg to stand on when it comes to Saturdays. You'd think we're the only people in the country that work them! My sister is a manager for an electrical store and works Saturdays until 6pm, Xmas Eve until 6pm, Boxing days, New Years days and virtually every other bank holiday. So do millions of other people.

Saturdays are a working day whether we like it or not.