Seniority (again)

[Big Daz]

As mentioned the WF agreement is very clear seniority for non skilled jobs and vacant duties are to be advertised every 6 months.

The % of duties suggestion, is for resigns when revision activity is taking place.

A delivery is a delivery why should sickness and conduct come into it, blocking somebody from changing duty is not a agareed penalty in the conduct code. Attendance again has no mention in its procedure about blocking blocking somebody from changing duty.

[smokerjim]

Sorry Daz, I genuinely didn't know, and just made the assumption that your work standards would come into it ( and now I read that back and think about it, I see how wide open to abuse by DOMs it is )

[bogstandard]

I have a query regarding this old chestnut, in my small office a full time vacancy has occured, management want to give the job to a part timer and then get the rest to absorb the part time job, thereby making a saving. However, there are two others with more seniority who would like to apply for the job. My question is can the management get their way OR can one of the more senior applicants have the job. Are there definite rules on this or is seniority only at the managements discretion, there are some who say that seniority is discrimatory and against the law, is this true?

The way forward explains it all in the resourcing section.
I would not be surprised if your manager (instructed by the business) is focusing on the bit where it asks if the duty is still required. Your DOM's answer or so he's been told is "well not all of it anymore".

No, seniority is not discriminatory.

senior posties cannot be excluded from specialist jobs (as defined in TWF) even if they have previously expressed a preference to be trained in such a position prior to it becoming vacant

[mondeoman1]

As mentioned the WF agreement is very clear seniority for non skilled jobs and vacant duties are to be advertised every 6 months.

The % of duties suggestion, is for resigns when revision activity is taking place.

A delivery is a delivery why should sickness and conduct come into it, blocking somebody from changing duty is not a agareed penalty in the conduct code. Attendance again has no mention in its procedure about blocking blocking somebody from changing duty.

"A delivery is a delivery" Not true. Some deliveries are easier than others and the senior member would go for the easiest.

If the senior member is constantly sick, late,lazy, why should he be rewarded with the best duty.

I am okay with seniority but it should not be used as the one and only deciding factor.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

As mentioned the WF agreement is very clear seniority for non skilled jobs and vacant duties are to be advertised every 6 months.

The % of duties suggestion, is for resigns when revision activity is taking place.

A delivery is a delivery why should sickness and conduct come into it, blocking somebody from changing duty is not a agareed penalty in the conduct code. Attendance again has no mention in its procedure about blocking blocking somebody from changing duty.

"A delivery is a delivery" Not true. Some deliveries are easier than others and the senior member would go for the easiest.

If the senior member is constantly sick, late,lazy, why should he be rewarded with the best duty.

I am okay with seniority but it should not be used as the one and only deciding factor.

Him being lazy, constantly sick and late is a management issue and should be tackled as such. If you believe he is getting preferential treatment there is always the option of put in a greviance against a manger.

Management incompetence or inaction does not negate the fairness of an agreement it just highlights the lack of leadership and people skills within Royal Mail.

[Urban Smith]

Here's an idea for choosing rounds.

Why not draw names out of hat. First out gets first choice of round and so on ..!

Before you ask, I am not a new starter but I don't see why years service should get you an easier round when we all get paid roughly the same to do the same job.

I look foward to being "shot down".

[mondeoman1]

As mentioned the WF agreement is very clear seniority for non skilled jobs and vacant duties are to be advertised every 6 months.

The % of duties suggestion, is for resigns when revision activity is taking place.

A delivery is a delivery why should sickness and conduct come into it, blocking somebody from changing duty is not a agareed penalty in the conduct code. Attendance again has no mention in its procedure about blocking blocking somebody from changing duty.

"A delivery is a delivery" Not true. Some deliveries are easier than others and the senior member would go for the easiest.

If the senior member is constantly sick, late,lazy, why should he be rewarded with the best duty.

I am okay with seniority but it should not be used as the one and only deciding factor.

Him being lazy, constantly sick and late is a management issue and should be tackled as such. If you believe he is getting preferential treatment there is always the option of put in a greviance against a manger.

Management incompetence or inaction does not negate the fairness of an agreement it just highlights the lack of leadership and people skills within Royal Mail.

I agree 100%, it is down to bad management.

[dvbuk55]

Here's an idea for choosing rounds.

Why not draw names out of hat. First out gets first choice of round and so on ..!

Before you ask, I am not a new starter but I don't see why years service should get you an easier round when we all get paid roughly the same to do the same job.

I look foward to being "shot down".

Bang Bang

[lekker]

Here's an idea for choosing rounds.

Why not draw names out of hat. First out gets first choice of round and so on ..!

Before you ask, I am not a new starter but I don't see why years service should get you an easier round when we all get paid roughly the same to do the same job.

I look foward to being "shot down".

BANG BANG BANG

[Urban Smith]

Nice dog.

I believe the average IQ of a Border Collie is higher than that of an RM manager. Also better looking !

[dvbuk55]

Nice dog.

I believe the average IQ of a Border Collie is higher than that of an RM manager. Also better looking !

woof woof

[Big Daz]

There should be no easy or hard duties only personal preference.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Here's an idea for choosing rounds.

Why not draw names out of hat. First out gets first choice of round and so on ..!

Before you ask, I am not a new starter but I don't see why years service should get you an easier round when we all get paid roughly the same to do the same job.

I look foward to being "shot down".

Because all rounds with regards to how long it takes on average over the whole year should be roughly the same. Okay they will never be exactly the same because roads are different lengths, new builds are not spread evenly etc etc.

The main reason for accepting seniority for me (and I am lower than some PTimers even though I am FT on our list) is that the longer you do a duty the more of a rapport you get with the residents, the more local knowledge you pick up and ultimately this creates a sense of loyalty to and from the postie.

So if a postie has been on a duty for 10 years or so he has more loyalty to that duty than one who started on one 6 months ago. Now is it fair that the 6 month postie can chose a duty near his home because his name came out of the hat first and takes over the duty of the 10 year man. Or is it fairer that the 10 year man has more of a chance to stay on a duty that he has worked hard on for years and that the 6 month postie gets another duty so he can build up his local knowledge to the same level of the 10 year man, and in the same way by doing different duties.

No system is perfect but senioirty has less flaws than any other as far as I can see.


I think Royal Mail forgets or underestimates the level of loyalty postie feel to their duties and how much of an asset this is to their corporate image. For instance RM gets good press when a postie saves a resident who has collapsed and no one else had noticed, or notices mail piling up but knows that that resident has not gone away. If as I think RM ultimately want no one to have a regular duty then there will no longer be such stories and brand recognition and awareness will fall. There will be less "Good News" stories to counteract the "Postie hoards parcels" and "Postie steals from Kids cards" type ones.

[mondeoman1]

There should be no easy or hard duties only personal preference.

Some have loads of steps but shorter span, very tiring. (Hard duty).

Some have no steps and longer spans, not tiring. (easy duty).

I have done both and much prefer the latter.

You cannot compare duties like for like.

[Urban Smith]

Here's an idea for choosing rounds.

Why not draw names out of hat. First out gets first choice of round and so on ..!

Before you ask, I am not a new starter but I don't see why years service should get you an easier round when we all get paid roughly the same to do the same job.

I look foward to being "shot down".

Because all rounds with regards to how long it takes on average over the whole year should be roughly the same. Okay they will never be exactly the same because roads are different lengths, new builds are not spread evenly etc etc.

The main reason for accepting seniority for me (and I am lower than some PTimers even though I am FT on our list) is that the longer you do a duty the more of a rapport you get with the residents, the more local knowledge you pick up and ultimately this creates a sense of loyalty to and from the postie.

So if a postie has been on a duty for 10 years or so he has more loyalty to that duty than one who started on one 6 months ago. Now is it fair that the 6 month postie can chose a duty near his home because his name came out of the hat first and takes over the duty of the 10 year man. Or is it fairer that the 10 year man has more of a chance to stay on a duty that he has worked hard on for years and that the 6 month postie gets another duty so he can build up his local knowledge to the same level of the 10 year man, and in the same way by doing different duties.

No system is perfect but senioirty has less flaws than any other as far as I can see.


I think Royal Mail forgets or underestimates the level of loyalty postie feel to their duties and how much of an asset this is to their corporate image. For instance RM gets good press when a postie saves a resident who has collapsed and no one else had noticed, or notices mail piling up but knows that that resident has not gone away. If as I think RM ultimately want no one to have a regular duty then there will no longer be such stories and brand recognition and awareness will fall. There will be less "Good News" stories to counteract the "Postie hoards parcels" and "Postie steals from Kids cards" type ones.

I agree with a lot of what you say.

Problems arise when seniority is carried over from other Offices.

Regards "Corporate Image" i don't think RM "gives a s**t". If they did we wouldn,t have aborbtion. RM just wants to deliver as cheaply as possible. They are not bothered about the Customer.