Agreement reached

[DGP1]

bring on the lump sum

Bring on the screaming when you actually have to do what the agreement states

[k979aaa]

Lump sum's are bribes but who knows what is in this agreement as it were or is only time will tell what has or has not been agreed in our name!.

[music4essex]

It beggers belief that someone can say yes to an agreement over a paltry lump some of money

dingdong wrote:
bring on the lump sum
But will probably be on here moaning that the RM heirechy stitch them up

I am guessing for those that have been on RM for quite a few years can see beyond a lump some and seen how RM peform once an agreement has been voted on If it gets a Yes vote, Leopards don't change there spots

Essex mum

[ad0128]

any news on the lump sum?

[k979aaa]

any news on the lump sum?

Yep it's two million £ pounds and crozier has it all to himself go see him if the deal is not what you expect but for the rest of us we must wait and see!.

[headscrewedon]

By the very nature of the way competition was introduced, the postal market is rigged against Royal Mail. Yes, I know the price set by RM's ineptness means we make a loss on every DSA item, but it's not a level playing-field, as our "competitors" can cherry pick the most profitable mail, and don't have to do deliveries.

As consumers, we all exercise our right to get things cheaper. Dunno about you, but I don't buy a dvd from hmv.com if it's a quid cheaper at play.com. Now if hmv can promise delivery in 2 days when play usually take, say, 5 days, then perhaps I might order from the more expensive one, hmv. BUT - and it's a crucial but - why on earth would I use hmv (and pay more as well) if I knew hmv go on strike every other year and I've no certainty of when it will be despatched ? It's a no-brainer, isn't it ? You use the competitor and you save money !

Against that background, we have Royal Mail's sales teams trying to persuade some of the biggest posters of mail in the country to not go down the DSA route, and stay loyal to RM. How do they do that, when the competition are undercutting RM on price and the main argument we can offer them to not use TNT, UK Mail, DHL etc is the reliability of our service ? It's now standard practice in most spheres of business these days that, as part of any commercial contract, companies expect financial compensation from suppliers when they fail to meet the terms of the contract as signed by both parties. Obviously, failures caused by extreme weather, acts of war, fire etc etc are considered beyond the supplier's control, and are usually excluded from the 'financial penalties' clauses.

One of RM's sales people, however, told me there are major brands out there who, when they read that Royal Mail includes strike action as one of things that is 'beyond their control', they are met with reactions ranging from incredulity to outright laughter. We will NEVER win those customers over to Royal Mail (or get them to switch back to RM) whilst our main competitive advantage is so completely undermined. And that has ramifications for jobs. Because the overall mail market is going to shrink in coming years (due to e-commerce, e-bills etc), and our only way to fight back is to grow our share of that market from current levels. NOT having a no-strike agreement is seriously handicapping RM's ability to compete, because there's whole chunks of business that we can't even get a foot in to the door to pitch for !

These protracted negotiations have shown that going to a third party can get two parties who are seemingly miles apart to come to agreement. If a process to resolve future disputes can be agreed upon by the CWU and RM, and we can avoid strikes that hamper RM's ability to win custom, I think it's what's needed to finally drag both the CWU and RM into the 21st century, and make our jobs a little more secure.

[fishtank]

It's a nice idea in principle headscrewedon but i think we are all aware that we will be dealing with the same incompetent,belligerent,aggressive management that almost brought this company to it's knees last summer.
Executive action by definition is outside of agreement so what would be the point in signing an agreement not to break an agreement.
Who would police such an agreement anyway and what would the penalties be for non-adherence?
It would be an agreement that would further tie the unions hands as if anti-union legislation were not enough while leaving RM a free reign to impose change by whatever means they felt necessary.
There are very few things that would make me consider my union membership but this would be up near the top.

[pjthebear]

bring on the lump sum

Here we go ....sausage and beans bridgade ....

You missed out chips

[headscrewedon]

Who would police such an agreement anyway and what would the penalties be for non-adherence?

There are very few things that would make me consider my union membership but this would be up near the top.

Something along the lines of
1. Union notifies management of Stage 1 disagreement, and the process continues as per current IR framework, except
2. when Stage 3 disagreement results in a stalemate, both parties have to go to ACAS, as per the "2010 agreement", whose independent decision is binding on both parties

?

Penalties ? Dunno !

[fishtank]

Who would police such an agreement anyway and what would the penalties be for non-adherence?

There are very few things that would make me consider my union membership but this would be up near the top.

Something along the lines of
1. Union notifies management of Stage 1 disagreement, and the process continues as per current IR framework, except
2. when Stage 3 disagreement results in a stalemate, both parties have to go to ACAS, as per the "2010 agreement", whose independent decision is binding on both parties

?

Penalties ? Dunno !

That's the point though Royal Mail may be in a financial mess but compared to the union they are dripping with cash.
In a competition to see who could absorb the most fines or penalties the union would always lose and have to back down.
It will never be a level playing field so it is a game we should aviod entering in the first place.

[Martin Walsh]

Thanks truth for the update and nice to see that they have finally agreed something

What concerns me more then anything is not the right to take industrial action if the DIm Doms decide to go about the agreement in there usual manner, then I can see we will be in a no win situation , so I am hoping that the wording is watertight that in future we will be able take industrial action if the need arises.

If the Pec votes yes for it I will look forward to reading it

essex mum

Rest assured there will be not be a no strike deal within the agreement. Yes there will be a section on how both sides can improve realationships and avoid the need for either executive action and Industrial action. Anyone who had executive action imposed last year will understand that the industrial relations framework can be abused by management when they see fit. Equally surely a union only takes the members out on strike as a last resort when negotations have failed and management have decided to impose change. However this union will never surrender its most lethal weapon (strike action ) but hopefully if we can agree a process where we dont need to use it as often as we have done in the past , then surely that should be welcomed not criticised.

Now in regard to the process, the pec will meet tomorrow and Wednesday. However please dont all think you will get a copy of the agreement before the weekend, that will depend on whether the PEC amend the agreement which would mean that the Union would have to achieve those amendments in further talks with Royal Mail. Equally amendments could be made which means that it will not be agreed until such time as the pension issue has been claified etc.

However if the PEC do vote to accept the agreement then rightly you will recieve it. Knowing this site it probably be on here before that in any case.

[dvbuk55]

A no strike deal would emasculate the union once and for all - this agreement - which I might add has taken four months to get to this stage, and is by no means secured, has hardly been a showpiece for ACAS, a toothless wonder if ever there was one.

[dvbuk55]

Just as a matter of interest dingo, what has the pension got to do with this deal? Surely the union de-coupled the pensions issue from the negotiations. I understood the issue was for government to settle before the election.

[k979aaa]

Thanks truth for the update and nice to see that they have finally agreed something

What concerns me more then anything is not the right to take industrial action if the DIm Doms decide to go about the agreement in there usual manner, then I can see we will be in a no win situation , so I am hoping that the wording is watertight that in future we will be able take industrial action if the need arises.

If the Pec votes yes for it I will look forward to reading it

essex mum

Rest assured there will be not be a no strike deal within the agreement. Yes there will be a section on how both sides can improve realationships and avoid the need for either executive action and Industrial action. Anyone who had executive action imposed last year will understand that the industrial relations framework can be abused by management when they see fit. Equally surely a union only takes the members out on strike as a last resort when negotations have failed and management have decided to impose change. However this union will never surrender its most lethal weapon (strike action ) but hopefully if we can agree a process where we dont need to use it as often as we have done in the past , then surely that should be welcomed not criticised.

Now in regard to the process, the pec will meet tomorrow and Wednesday. However please dont all think you will get a copy of the agreement before the weekend, that will depend on whether the PEC amend the agreement which would mean that the Union would have to achieve those amendments in further talks with Royal Mail. Equally amendments could be made which means that it will not be agreed until such time as the pension issue has been claified etc.

However if the PEC do vote to accept the agreement then rightly you will recieve it. Knowing this site it probably be on here before that in any case.

For the pensions issue to be resolved/clarified would mean that the sale of or part of royal mail has been agreed has any government people :mfo been involved in the talks at any stage since the 5/11/2009 ?.

[banner18]

Never mind all that, what is the lump sum?