The truth behind the last 48 hours

[Glenno]

answer
1 pro rata - thats bollox this is a D2D sum?? and we do the same amount of D2d AS FULL TIMERS GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
2 if you were in the system in 2008???? you will be intitled - NO mid 2009! OMFG??????
3 NO

ok//





so that means i GET F ALL???????? SO I GET F ALL FOR DOING d2d ALL YEAR?? WTF???????????


OMFG[/quote]

my fault thought you meant CS payment (too busy reading 1 thread &answering in another) while trying to
watch the footie

[el_cartero]

[clashcityrocker]

whats is M T S F

Manage the surplus framework.
It is how they deal with voluntary redundancy and buy downs etc.
What is OMFG?

[goinpostal]

1 pro rata - thats bollox this is a D2D sum?? and we do the same amount of D2d AS FULL TIMERS GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Good point!

[eian687]

1 pro rata - thats bollox this is a D2D sum?? and we do the same amount of D2d AS FULL TIMERS GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Good point!

the floats in our office dont do any D2D so they should not get it then ???

[el_cartero]

1 pro rata - thats bollox this is a D2D sum?? and we do the same amount of D2d AS FULL TIMERS GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Good point!

the floats in our office dont do any D2D so they should not get it then ???

best way to get em to do em is stick em in ur tay the day before :) done it to one guy he was pissed off..

im sure he post half of the mail back into the post boxs cos i end up with heaving mail a few days later!

[Big Daz]

The only resaon some floaters dont do d to d is mangerial incomptence, they are suposed to do their 20%. Under the new scheme they will have to start doing them as they will be paid for them.

[fishtank]

The only resaon some floaters dont do d to d is mangerial incomptence, they are suposed to do their 20%. Under the new scheme they will have to start doing them as they will be paid for them.

The only flaw in your thinking Daz is that management incompetence is the universal constant,if they are supposed to do them now and don't the only thing that can change that scenario is peer pressure.

[midvillain]

i'm a float and i never do any. i assume the lads want to take their own to get the full payment, and none of them ever complain to me about it. however, once the payments cease, i know i'll be obliged to do it, because i'll be getting paid for it and the lads won't want to take them all anyway.

[shelanda]

one day soon we will all be part timers, everytime some1 leaves a 40hr position, it is filled with a 25hr.
!

[MinisterofCucumber]

The Truth claims that management can introduce the changes they want without agreement.

This is a threat, pure and simple.

Fishtank wrote:

"What or who can change a contract of employment?
Either you or your employer might want to change your employment contract. However, neither you or your employer can change your employment contract without each other's agreement. Changes should normally be made after negotiation and agreement.

Changes to employment contracts could be made by:
agreement between you and your employer
collective agreement - this is a negotiation between your employer and a trade union or staff association
implication - that is through a change in long standing custom and practice (for example if your employer allows all employees a day off each year for New Year's Eve)
If a collective agreement makes a change to employment contracts, the change will still apply to you even if you are not a member of the trade union or staff association

What if you and your employer don't agree?
If you don't agree, your employer is not allowed to just bring in a change. However, they can terminate your contract (by giving notice) and offer you a new one including the revised terms - effectively sacking you and taking you back on. Your employer would be expected to follow a statutory minimum dismissal procedure. They may have to follow a collective redundancy consultation process if they plan to do this to a group of employees.

If this situation happens in your workplace, you should contact the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (Acas) or another advice service for further guidance.
If you don't accept the new contract - or if you've accepted the new one but feel there was no good reason for ending the old one - you have the right to make an unfair dismissal claim provided you've at least one year of continuous service with your employer. You may also be able to claim redundancy if you have at least two years service.

This is the down side
If there is a sound business reason for the change, and your employer has properly consulted you and looked into any alternatives, you could find it difficult to win your claim."

What the f**k is 'executive action'?

Have the union's lawyers tested this?

If management can bring in the changes they want without agreement, why are they spending so much effort trying to get one?

:cfo

[k979aaa]

The Truth claims that management can introduce the changes they want without agreement.

This is a threat, pure and simple.

Fishtank wrote:

"What or who can change a contract of employment?
Either you or your employer might want to change your employment contract. However, neither you or your employer can change your employment contract without each other's agreement. Changes should normally be made after negotiation and agreement.

Changes to employment contracts could be made by:
agreement between you and your employer
collective agreement - this is a negotiation between your employer and a trade union or staff association
implication - that is through a change in long standing custom and practice (for example if your employer allows all employees a day off each year for New Year's Eve)
If a collective agreement makes a change to employment contracts, the change will still apply to you even if you are not a member of the trade union or staff association

What if you and your employer don't agree?
If you don't agree, your employer is not allowed to just bring in a change. However, they can terminate your contract (by giving notice) and offer you a new one including the revised terms - effectively sacking you and taking you back on. Your employer would be expected to follow a statutory minimum dismissal procedure. They may have to follow a collective redundancy consultation process if they plan to do this to a group of employees.

If this situation happens in your workplace, you should contact the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (Acas) or another advice service for further guidance.
If you don't accept the new contract - or if you've accepted the new one but feel there was no good reason for ending the old one - you have the right to make an unfair dismissal claim provided you've at least one year of continuous service with your employer. You may also be able to claim redundancy if you have at least two years service.

This is the down side
If there is a sound business reason for the change, and your employer has properly consulted you and looked into any alternatives, you could find it difficult to win your claim."

What the f**k is 'executive action'?

Have the union's lawyers tested this?

If management can bring in the changes they want without agreement, why are they spending so much effort trying to get one?

:cfo

They can bring in what ever they want but we can all walkout or get a ballot and go on strike talking is best for both sides it cost's nothing but time and common sense!.

[The truth!]

Ok to answer a few comments ,

Colleague share money will form part of the deal. Colleague share money was meant to be £5300 over the life of the plan. However Royal Mail point out that due to a number of factors that the actual value of colleague share money has been halved.

Now with regards to later Saturdays and why its is still not an outstanding issue , well the issue of Saturdays has taken up probably half the time that the talks have been going on. The simple fact is that Royal Mail will not agree not to run the machines on a Saturday as they have stated if they do it will blow their whole financial plan. No one likes that. The union understands this could be a deal breaker. However as Roger Poole and ACAS have pointed out if the union wanted a deal then it had to accept later Saturdays. The Union have therefore got a commitment to less Saturdays for everyone. Now I understand Saturdays could well be a reason why the members may vote against any agreement on. But and there is a but , Royal Mail will regardless of if there is an agreement run the machines on Saturdays and will push duties later on Saturdays.

Now in regards to colleague share money or lump sums being converted to basic pay , well we would all love that but the problem is that the employer does not want the reoccuring costs associated with this and also it adds to the pension problems and costs more for them with regards to National Insurance payments. The increases in basic pay within the deal and the reviews if inflation increases is I think fair.

Now in terms of restructuring , well I think in deliveries there is £55 million in door to door payments per year and 28 million in the early allowances per year. The problem being is that 28 million in allowances keeps on decreasing when anyone leaves as it is a grandfather rights payment. The Union had a choice we just let Royal Mail trap that money as people leave or we get it in a supplement which can be increased in future linked to pay rises.

Now finally a lot of comments have been about Royal Mail being able to introduce their plan without an agreement. Well of course they can , they started that under SDD until the unofficial action got a National agreement. Look their finances are not great for a company , they wont not introduce walk sequencing , or later Saturdays or not close more mail centres. However they know that without an agreement a lot of offices will not co-operate with the changes and therefore Royal Mail`s targeted savings may not be realised in all units and of course industrial unrest may take place in some areas.

Now the reason why the union wants a deal is that we know what is coming, Mark Higson at the briefing on Thursday stated that Royal Mail`s business plan is probably the biggest change by any company in UK history. Put simply the change is frightening. If the union wants to protect full time jobs , avoid no complusory redundancies increase terms on fares etc in MTSF and get some benefits and a shorter working week and of course put the union in a strong positon at all levels to deal with Royal Mail`s plan then we need an agreement. Of course we can all judge whether it is a good agreement when we read it and if its achieved.

I hope this helps people to understand a bit of whats going on. The CWU is fighting on your behalf but it does not have veto on all change. Your vote will make a difference but with or without an agreement some changes will come in.

[SWIM]

are they still talking as we speak?
have talks concluded for good?

[fishtank]

If Royal Mail are now saying the Colleague Shares are only worth half why have we not been informed of this? i want proof and it shouldn't be difficult to get.

How are the ColleagueShares valued?
Putting a value on something as complicated as Royal Mail Group isn’t easy! We’ve talked to the experts about how to do it and we’ve agreed a formula with the government. The value will come straight out of the numbers – there’s no judgement or guesswork. The government will check the calculations each time and we can call on an independent expert if we need one.

If they are trying to pull a fast one over the pension deficit it will not hold water.
Just how many times and in how many ways will HQ allow Royal Mail to hold members to ransom over a pension deficit that was not their fault.?


The Truth wrote
"The problem being is that 28 million in allowances keeps on decreasing when anyone leaves as it is a grandfather rights payment. The Union had a choice we just let Royal Mail trap that money as people leave or we get it in a supplement which can be increased in future linked to pay rises."


The CWU has no mandate to incorparate Early Shift Allowance into a supplement.

"Conference further agrees that any such agreement must ensure that if delivery attendance times are significantly altered that the current early shift allowance is protected on permanent basis by incorporation into basic pay for delivery members"

Basic Pay, Yes
Supplement, No