Campaigners unite to combat fascism

[clashcityrocker]

Then again, are you really trying to imply some UK residents go to the US, Oz or NZ etc to "continue a life of crime", when many/most find those country's far more stringent entry requirements onerous enough anyway?
Straws a' clutching....

I was thinking more of Spain although they say Dubai is the new Costa del Crime.
If you are pursuing a life of crime I'll think you'll find you don't need to observe the usual visa entry requirements.
Although Spain used to be a retreat for villains it has become a stepping-stone for Brits involved in the drug trade and it is believed the family involved in a shooting in a Glasgow supermarket car park are now in Spain.
What straws am I clutching at? The point was: if the crime argument against emigration is specious then the crime argument against immigration is also specious.Did you have trouble following that?

[IWW Fellow Worker]

My above post which you have all missinterpreted was a responce to IWW's post about Great British Immigrants.

Only one person on that list wasn't born in Britain, and they took out British citizenship decades ago. Don't assume on the basis of a surname, a religion or skin colour that someone is an immigrant. Even if they were an immigrant, I'm not bothered. Who wouldn't choose to live by a peaceful Indian, African or Pole than a BNP member who might be hiding explosives in his house?

[Tman]

Then again, are you really trying to imply some UK residents go to the US, Oz or NZ etc to "continue a life of crime", when many/most find those country's far more stringent entry requirements onerous enough anyway?
Straws a' clutching.... :rollI was thinking more of Spain although they say Dubai is the new Costa del Crime.

So you don't really mean "emigrate" but merely live abroad? There's a subtle difference...

The point was: if the crime argument against emigration is specious then the crime argument against immigration is also specious.Did you have trouble following that?

Yes. One is an internationally recognised problem and has led to various so-called "Task Forces", initiatives etc against it, whereas the other is a minor problem which you're clutching at as some sort of rebuttal of the point, but the point remains the same; has anyone ever called for an end to emigration, and how could it legally be stopped anyway?
The two (emigration and immigration) can't be compared and contrasted in this way however much you appear to want to try
Your point was.....

[opgpat]

Evan Davis' program on BBC1 tonight proved that the economic migrants to Britain are creating a 'Dole Class' of British people who will never get a chance to work. That is because the unskilled but fairly paid jobs their fathers did have been reduced to minimum wage jobs specifically for foreign immirants. Employers are cynically cutting wages and working conditions to what is acceptable for East European workers and leaving generations of Brits on the dole que.

The people who didn't turn up for work on the show have been on the dole for years. Being a doley for years changes people, it become a way of life and they need help and training NOT an offer of 2days work infront of a camera crew. So it's no wonder some didn't turn up.

Everyone interested in this take note. Your job is next.

Royal Mail will do what the argicultural industry has done. It will cut renumeration and make conditions worse and rely on uncomplaining immigrant labour to take up the new jobs locals wont be prepared or can afford to do. If you want your children to have a job end immigration now. Send most of them home and create quality jobs for local Brits. 8hours slaving in an Asparagus field for 45quid is not a quality or realistic job for a Brit with a mortgage and a life to build.

[BELIAL]

Rock on ,lets shoot all the bosses and put a stop to this once and for all

[Tman]

You're wasting yout time OPGPat, if you think there's any sort of relevant reply coming.
Even what little wit there was in the witty one-liners has gone now.............

[borders]

Evan Davis' program on BBC1 tonight proved that the economic migrants to Britain are creating a 'Dole Class' of British people who will never get a chance to work. That is because the unskilled but fairly paid jobs their fathers did have been reduced to minimum wage jobs specifically for foreign immirants. Employers are cynically cutting wages and working conditions to what is acceptable for East European workers and leaving generations of Brits on the dole que.

The people who didn't turn up for work on the show have been on the dole for years. Being a doley for years changes people, it become a way of life and they need help and training NOT an offer of 2days work infront of a camera crew. So it's no wonder some didn't turn up.

Everyone interested in this take note. Your job is next.

Royal Mail will do what the argicultural industry has done. It will cut renumeration and make conditions worse and rely on uncomplaining immigrant labour to take up the new jobs locals wont be prepared or can afford to do. If you want your children to have a job end immigration now. Send most of them home and create quality jobs for local Brits. 8hours slaving in an Asparagus field for 45quid is not a quality or realistic job for a Brit with a mortgage and a life to build.

this post to be fair to Opgpat , has some fair points in it , particularly the first paragraph. however, immigration is a sympton of the system we live in and the end of migration would not be a solution. you said it yourself capitalism relies on a cheap source of labour, capitalism does not care what colour of skin it exploits. your line -" send most of them home " shows your true colours . do you honestly think the employers would then increase the wages they pay , just because the employees suddenly became all white and British ?

[norbert]

OPGpat may have a good point about doley's going " soft " & cynical employers , lacking discipline / self discipline , motivation , even depressed etc , etc . I think ? the Labour Government of the 30's had boot camps for the unemployed to stop this happening .

I do believe New Labour have encouraged this source of cheap migrant labour to appear " business friendly " and to keep the C.B.I. sweet - the usual mixed and contradictory messages ? .

I think ? there was a short feature on Newsnight about foreign London Hotel workers paid on piece rate by the room being cynically exploited . There was another horror story about Romanian women hired to sell cosmetics at Debenhams on next to nothing basic rates and the rest was all commission .

I have worked for an agency as a " mail order clerk " on piece rate , it meant sticking labels on foolscap sized envelopes , then you'd to stuff them with catalogues , make up labels for the RM bags , then throw them into RSC's which RM collected .

You had to work like a speeded up robot & switch off completely , otherwise you'd not earn too much money . Let's just say the firm sells a very huge range of electrical components , accessories , bits and bobs and sponsors programmes on ITV .

I worked on the bins for a private cleansing firm for a well known agency , it was for a Tory Council , you'd to do everything at the double or double , double , I was the only one who'd not been in Prison , a deliberate employment policy ? - for some reason , the agency was always looking for staff .

I've worked in a few junk mail factories , in one , there used to be a side door if the Social came round , in another , staff used to go and sign on apparently apparently the Social would do home visits on people if they suspected people , they'd check bank accounts and be looking round houses / flats like hawks to see if anyone had been splashing the cash .

When I joined RM - it wasn't a case of waking up one morning and deciding to be militant , I just didn't want to go through all that cr** again , what the RM system does to staff is continually rub people up the wrong way and makes them cynical and mistrusting .

[borders]

good post Norbert.

[Tman]

,

what the RM system does to staff is continually rub people up the wrong way and makes them cynical and mistrusting .

So you've been through all that crap with dodgy employers etc, and yet it's RM (which must be your best employer ever) which continually rubs people up the wrong way?
Bread? Buttered?

[norbert]

You'll find the agency was the employer , they merely acted as brokers to get people work , the firms pay so much - up to £15 p.h . , the agency takes a cut ; such is business and the nature of short terminism and the casualised , insecure Labour market that exists . Also those firms don't have to pay sick pay , holidays , insurance either .

To reiterate , Cleanaway actively recruited ex convicts and couldn't even keep agency staff , the nationally known firm had a turnover problem & relied on skint students , and the only people that wanted to work permanently in junk mail factories were dole cheats on the lump .

I'm sorry but I don't buy all this eternally in gratitude , cap doffing and forelock tugging towards RM , RM [b]could be[/b] a fair and good employer but with poor management , culture and poisonous politics , it'll never be one hence the need for & the loyalty to the CWU .

[Tman]

I'm sorry but I don't buy all this eternally in gratitude , cap doffing and forelock tugging towards RM , RM [b]could be[/b] a fair and good employer but with poor management , culture and poisonous politics , it'll never be one hence the need for & the loyalty to the CWU .

You need the CWU however good the employer seems to be, but you stated how bad some previous employers were, so RM must be better by comparison?
No cap-doffing required, just recognition that there are far worse employers, as you've clearly found out.

[clashcityrocker]

You're wasting yout time OPGPat, if you think there's any sort of relevant reply coming.

I think tman is right opgpat. you are wasting your time.
No one is interested in your racist drivel.

[Thorby Bislam]

It could happen to you

It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then -- just to loosen up. Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker. I began to think alone -- "to relax," I told myself -- but I knew it wasn't true. Thinking became more and more important to me, and finally I was thinking all the time.

That was when things began to sour at home. One evening, I turned off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that night at her mother's.

I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment at RM don't mix, but I couldn't help myself.

I began to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau, Muir, Confucius, and Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, "What is it exactly we are doing here?"

One day, the boss called me in. He said, "Listen, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the job, you'll be on a conduct code."

This gave me a lot to think about.

I came home early after my conversation with the boss. "Honey," I confessed, "I've been thinking..."

"I know you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"

"But Honey, surely it's not that serious."

"It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver. "You think as much as a college professor and college professors don't make any money, so if you keep on thinking, we won't have any money!"

"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently.

She exploded in tears of rage and frustration, but I was in no mood to deal with the emotional drama.

"I'm going to the library," I snarled as I stomped out the door. I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche. I roared into the parking lot with a social reportage on the radio and ran up to the big glass doors. They didn't open. The library was closed.

To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night. Leaning on the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye: "Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?" it asked. You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinkers Anonymous poster. This is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker. I never miss a TA meeting. At each meeting we watch a non-educational video; last week it was /Porky's/. Then we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting.

I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home. Life just seemed...easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking. The road to recovery is now nearly complete for me.

Today I took the final step. I joined the BNP.

[opgpat]

You're wasting yout time OPGPat, if you think there's any sort of relevant reply coming.
Even what little wit there was in the witty one-liners has gone now.............

Thanks for that valuable contribution to the thread, but I have to ask, if you don't want to reply then... why reply???

The post was not intended to be witty this time. That program, if you saw it, tells you everything you need to know about where the 'free' market and unrestrained immigration will leave the next generation in this country. You might not be interested in the consequences but I reserve my right to be. Your and my job is at threat. It's simple and true but you are totally blinkered by your PC-influenced subconcious need to appear the antithesis of a racist brute.

To make my position clear again I'm not a racist or discriminatory and get on very well with the non-Brits at work. But the fact remains the BNP are raising relevant issues no other party will touch. It's not racist to want to ensure the job market in this country gives natives a chance to start a decent life. And it's not racist to close the borders to immigrants to protect jobs for people who were born here. Every migrant worker is here for one thing, money. It's not racist to say that has huge consequences for native Brits lives. It being a pragmatist not a racist.

Thorby, that's a nice little story but the problem is the BNP are discussing issues in an intelligent way. They are also tackling things that the main parties are ignoring. They have a section about Peak Oil on their front page. This single issue could have more impact on our futures than anything else fullstop but you won't find a mention of it on labour.org. The story is also deeply ironic in this context considering the influence Nietzsche had on Mr Hitler. You'd be wrong to think there is no intelligence behind extremist politics. And it's important to note that there are mindless morons who support Labour, the Tories and Lib Dems too.