dingo wrote:
Equally we know that Royal Mail have not budgeted for any new defcit which is going to be over 10.5 billion , the reason is obvious that they intend to close the pension scheme.
Assuming this is true, and the government don't fullfill their moral obligations on the pension scheme. What happens to all the money we've paid in? Do we lose the lot? What happens to the pension benefits we've already built up? Can we all collectively sue the Government /company for taking a contributions holiday?
If this is allowed to happen it will be one of the biggest pensions scandals ever in my opinion. How likely is it that the pension will close?
dingo wrote:I understand that people want to know whats in the agreement and everyone is frustrated at the facts its taken 3 months since the interim agreement was reached.
But believe me when you do see the agreement you will understand why , this agreement is going to be titled 2010 and beyond. It is going to provide a future for postal workers in a changing industry.
Linkin quite rightly points out that postal workers are not to blame for either the comercial loan , the downstream access rip off and the pension crisis. However like most things in industry the workers always suffer.
I hate to say this but the industry is in crisis. It is losing revenue as companies get a better deal by downstream access and then using Royal Mail for the final mile. TNT when they introduced walk sequencing the market was still growing . Royal Mail are introducing walk sequencing when the mails market is shirinking. Yes there is noise over traffic decline but over 82% of mail is automated and therefore counted by the mist system which is tested for accuracy every 2 weeks.
Now in terms of pensions , well the union is and continues to meet minsters etc on this issue. Some thing this is an easy option to crack well it aint especially on the verge of an election campaign.
Equally we know that Royal Mail have not budgeted for any new defcit which is going to be over 10.5 billion , the reason is obvious that they intend to close the pension scheme. Now a lot of people on here attempt to re write history but I know what happen on the final salery scheme when the union had the debate at the Northampton briefing apart from London there was not an appertite for a row on it , the North West understandably stated that they were going to fight on the mail centre issue and that was more important to their member then a pension at that moment but believe me there was not an appertite.
Now people will get the opportunity to vote on the deal and quite rightly make your mind up on the issues but lets be truthfully out there , some of us had to drag this union including branchs and divisons to a national ballot last year , as there was not an appertite in some areas for a fight thats why it took so long to get a national ballot. Yes we sercured a yes vote but lets be clear that was months after others took action .
Remember some of you speak from a personal view which is your absolute right but where I must correct you is I know as I was at the various briefings etc when reps gave reports and I heard the all to familar well Royal Mail are not doing anything in our area.
Not lets cut the crap the union is not waiting for the election , it wants the right deal , due to the level of change it knows its going to be a differcult deal to explain , plus it knows its best chance on resolving the pensions issue is if an agreement has been reached.
However lets get one thing clear look at TNT in Holland when they introduce walk sequencing full timeres only had a job until 2012 and it is 80% part time.
Im sorry Dingo but you are starting to sound like a RM manager. Bleat out the same stuff again and again and people will eventually believe it. Its no good stating that 'change is coming so deal with it' time and time again. Ok so the agreement is yet to be finalised we all know that, but naturally people are starting to get angry and lose faith at the elongated time scale.
The sad fact is that the CWU made huge errors in 2007 that have lead to the mess we are in now. Further to this, where were the union when these crises such as deficits and DSA were escalating? Were they not aware until now? Someone needs to take responsiblity for this absolute debacle.
fishtank wrote:
No dingo the £12.37 is very factual,that is my early shift allowance and it is about to lose all present and future value in one go.
If you think i am accepting whatever D2D supplement minus £12.37 i would suggest a rethink.
Winners and losers eh.
Fishtank the 2007 Pay and Mod stated that your early attendance allowance could be incorporated into pay after 3 years. The "grandfather rights" were never worth any more than the MTSF arrangments.
Actually no time limit was imposed the agreement says:
1.3 Early shift allowances in delivery retained as grandfather rights (for those in receipt since April 2007), including those in receipt of equivalent MTSF payments for changes made since May 2005. We will agree how this money, and equivalent MTSF payments for early shifts, may be used going forward as part of the pay restructuring process in Joint Working Group 2 – if no satisfactory solution is found then grandfather rights will be retained. The early shift payment is ceased in delivery on agreement to pay restructuring
.
So RM must have insisted that this new agreement included pay restructuring.
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A message from Billy Hayes, General Secretary and Dave Ward, Deputy General Secretary (Postal)
Dear Colleague,
The Postal Executive has endorsed a National Agreement with Royal Mail covering all the key areas in our dispute.
"Early shift allowance in delivery will be permanently retained."
"In addition, those who had already moved to later start times as long ago as May 05 and were in receipt of MTSF payments will now retain those payments permanently."
dingo wrote:
Equally we know that Royal Mail have not budgeted for any new defcit which is going to be over 10.5 billion , the reason is obvious that they intend to close the pension scheme.
Assuming this is true, and the government don't fullfill their moral obligations on the pension scheme. What happens to all the money we've paid in? Do we lose the lot? What happens to the pension benefits we've already built up? Can we all collectively sue the Government /company for taking a contributions holiday?
If this is allowed to happen it will be one of the biggest pensions scandals ever in my opinion. How likely is it that the pension will close?
When Brydon issued the threat last June 2009 that if the Postal Services Bill was not passed into law by Parliament he would have to look at closing the Royal Mail Final Salary Scheme I did not fully understand what he meant. However, what I think he was suggesting is the same action that was proposed at Barclays. Below is an extract from letter that the chief executive of Barclays, John Varley, sent to his employees last year.
"Put simply, we are proposing to close the final salary schemes and certain other schemes to future accrual, what this would mean for existing members of these schemes is that the benefit built up to date (that is, the benefit for all past service) would be locked in. All benefits relating to future service would then be provided by membership of our more modern schemes."
I would guess that Brydon would want to do the same, so in a nutshell your final salary part of your pension would be frozen and would not attract any further accrual in the future, thereby reducing Royal Mail's liability and your future pension.
dingo wrote:
Equally we know that Royal Mail have not budgeted for any new defcit which is going to be over 10.5 billion , the reason is obvious that they intend to close the pension scheme.
Assuming this is true, and the government don't fullfill their moral obligations on the pension scheme. What happens to all the money we've paid in? Do we lose the lot? What happens to the pension benefits we've already built up? Can we all collectively sue the Government /company for taking a contributions holiday?
If this is allowed to happen it will be one of the biggest pensions scandals ever in my opinion. How likely is it that the pension will close?
When Brydon issued the threat last June 2009 that if the Postal Services Bill was not passed into law by Parliament he would have to look at closing the Royal Mail Final Salary Scheme I did not fully understand what he meant. However, what I think he was suggesting is the same action that was proposed at Barclays. Below is an extract from letter that the chief executive of Barclays, John Varley, sent to his employees last year.
"Put simply, we are proposing to close the final salary schemes and certain other schemes to future accrual, what this would mean for existing members of these schemes is that the benefit built up to date (that is, the benefit for all past service) would be locked in. All benefits relating to future service would then be provided by membership of our more modern schemes."
I would guess that Brydon would want to do the same, so in a nutshell your final salary part of your pension would be frozen and would not attract any further accrual in the future, thereby reducing Royal Mail's liability and your future pension.
Well if this is the case what, legally, are our options? If this happens, remember the Fat Cats will not suffer. It seems that we, the MASSIVE majority are there just to provide the tiny minority with a lifestyle that we couldn't even imagine. What do we do about it? The law seems stacked in their favour. If it's used against them then they just change the law. So something which was a part of the terms and conditions under which we joined is just, possibly, going to be magicked away. You can bet this won't affect those at the top! So I say again, what do we do?
The final salary pension has been closed to new entrants and frozen for current contributors, as of 1st April 2008 all pension is a Career Salary Defined Benefit ('CSDB') basis for Reckonable Service for those of us who were in the FS scheme.
By closing dowm the FS completely we wont get any pension paid at FS rates and it will all be CSDB rate
That is what will happen if the Government dont take on the pension deficit.
I would point out that a Conservative Government will take on the pension deficit but that will come with the price tag of privatisation either in part or full.
Imagine Labour sticking to fingers up whilst the Conservatives offer a hand of help all be it with pre conditions
dingo wrote:Now in terms of pensions , well the union is and continues to meet minsters etc on this issue. Some thing this is an easy option to crack well it aint especially on the verge of an election campaign.
Dingo Why have Lionel Sampson and Phil browne and the rest of the trustees for that matter, not stated that both The Pension Regulator and Postcomm regulated our pension scheme as having a implicit goverment gaurentee with parliamentry oversite.
The trustees objected at the time even Royal Mail objected!
You might not know this but MR Sampson and Browne do, they were party to it as trustees, if they don't know it then they are f***ing incompetent!
