Campaigners unite to combat fascism

[TrueBlueTerrier]

My above post which you have all missinterpreted was a responce to IWW's post about Great British Immigrants. I was redressing the balance by showing that not all immigrants are good for this country, that's all. Yes plenty of white people do the same but we need to understand not all immigrants end up being Premier League players or novellists!

Yet you decided to list 3 British Terrorists who happened to follow a corrupted view of a particular religion, and people of that religion condemned them at the time, so I am afraid in my opinion you just highlighted your own biased opinion of that faith/racial background .

BTW I am not saying immigrants are all the best of the best, they plainly cannot be. Criminals are criminals by choice not because of birth, race or religion, to highlight or tar a group of people because of the actions of a few is immature at best and racist at worst.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

In my personal opinion, the leadership of the BNP are racist. But does that mean that every member is?
No. Not neccessarily. Some of my collegues are BNP members. And some of them, simply don't believe that there's any racism in the BNP. Which is why they voted for them. On the other hand, I've had more than my fair share of run-ins with "hardcore" BNP members, over the years. What people need to understand is: That they've spent a considerable amount of time, and money. Trying to convince potential voters that they aren't racist.

Now as far as policies go: Many of their policies (as I said during the debates, on the run up to the Euro Elections) are actually very good. And should be adopted by other parties. But sadly. They're part of a package, which contains racist policies too. Which is why I didn't vote for them. The racist elements are well hidden, amongst the good policies. But they're there, if you read them carefully.

As for their Website: Well, as Norbert pointed out: It contains racist comments. Although I personally, have seen far worse than that on there. In case you're wondering: I go on there from time to time, because unfortunately. Griffin got in as an MEP in my area. So I like to check from time to time, what's going on. Not, because I like anything I see on there.

Now I know that some people will be offended by what I'm saying. And I'm sorry for that. I'm offended by some of the pro-BNP posts. But that doesn't mean that we can't have a rational debate about it. Unfortunately it's virtually impossible to avoid causing offence, when debating such an emotive subject. We just need to take a few deep breaths before posting.

Well said Andy

[clashcityrocker]

THE SIMPLE POINT YOU ARE NOT GETTING IS THAT PEOPLE WHO THINK THERE ARE TOO MANY FORIGNERS IN THE COUNTRY ARE NOT NECCESSARILY NAZI SCUM.

THE COUNTRY HAS TOO MANY NON-NATIVES IN IT IS WHAT A HELL OF A LOT OF PEOPLE BELIEVE BUT CAN'T OR DON'T SAY BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU INSTANTLY CALL THEM NAZIS. YOU ARE LIKE THE THOUGHT POLICE.

If you check the rules of the site I think you will find that using capital letters is "discouraged" as it is the text equivalent of shouting.I may be a "blinkered extremist" but I am not deaf.
People who believe there are too many foreigners in the country are not necessarily Nazi scum, they may simply be people who have been deluded by the arguments of Nazi scum.
And for the record I did not call you Nazi pigs - the song by the Dead Kennedys is Nazi Punks f**k Off.
Hope Not Hate.

[Tman]

Criminals are criminals by choice not because of birth, race or religion, to highlight or tar a group of people because of the actions of a few is immature at best and racist at worst.

Not only racist but plainly illogical.
But to play the Devil's Advocate, SOME clearly come to the UK either to commit crime or to continue life as a so-called career criminal. What else would explain criminal charges for violence/prostitution/drugs offences/fraud etc within weeks (or less) of arriving here? It's stretching the bounds of credibility to believe anyone would drift into highly-organised crime networks within such a short space of time.
Doesn't that rather play into the BNP's hands?

[clashcityrocker]

And some people clearly emigrate to continue a life of crime yet nobody is using it as an argument for an end to emigration.

[opgpat]

Yet you decided to list 3 British Terrorists who happened to follow a corrupted view of a particular religion... in my opinion you just highlighted your own biased opinion of that faith/racial background .

Sorry to break this to you but that is a racist comment. You are stating that strict adherance to the guidance of the Koran is a 'corrupted view'? Many millions of Muslims will be very deeply offended by that remark because they believe the Koran tells them the laws of Islam should indeed be followed strictly. They belive the Koran tells them to defend their holy lands against invading aggressors and to kill all non-belivers involved in the occupation of their lands. That would include the British public. What gives you the right to oppose their religous principles and call them corrupt? You are judging their religeous beliefs against your own and that my friend is Religous Intollerance.

to highlight or tar a group of people because of the actions of a few is immature at best and racist at worst.

Yes that's probablly right. That's why I didn't say 'all Muslims are terrorists'. I didn't even suggest it. You might think I did because you want to see that. I was, as I said later, redressing the balance.

[opgpat]

If you check the rules of the site I think you will find that using capital letters is "discouraged"

If you check the rules of communication it involves one person actually listening to what the other is saying. When you don't listen people tend to shout to get the message through. That's what I was doing there and it was in my view fully justified.

I may be a "blinkered extremist" but I am not deaf.

You may be but I never called you that so don't suggest I did by including that in quotes.

People who believe there are too many foreigners in the country are not necessarily Nazi scum, they may simply be people who have been deluded by the arguments of Nazi scum

Well done, that's a very good point for once. I agree. But suggesting everyone who thinks there are too many forigners in the UK is deluded is perhaps a deluded opinion of itself. It's a big judgement to make isn't it. That everyone who opposes your view is deluded.

Far from being deluded I base my assesment of the immigration situation on government facts and figures, respectable news paper articles, my own direct experience of the change to this country over the last number of years.

PC Uber Alles.

[opgpat]

SOME clearly come to the UK

Careful, the upper case Police are lurking. To be safe make it 'uk' too.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Yet you decided to list 3 British Terrorists who happened to follow a corrupted view of a particular religion... in my opinion you just highlighted your own biased opinion of that faith/racial background .

Sorry to break this to you but that is a racist comment. You are stating that strict adherance to the guidance of the Koran is a 'corrupted view'? Many millions of Muslims will be very deeply offended by that remark because they believe the Koran tells them the laws of Islam should indeed be followed strictly. They belive the Koran tells them to defend their holy lands against invading aggressors and to kill all non-belivers involved in the occupation of their lands. That would include the British public. What gives you the right to oppose their religous principles and call them corrupt? You are judging their religeous beliefs against your own and that my friend is Religous Intollerance.

The terrorists holding a corrupt view of Islam is one espoused by prominent followers of Islam namely Tariq Ramadan, who said on 9th July 2005

They must have the courage to denounce what is said and done by certain Muslims in the name of their religion.

by definition denouncing one persons actions or views on a thing is to say that you think their view is corrupted, or at least wrong.

To correct you the accepted spelling is Qur'an

to highlight or tar a group of people because of the actions of a few is immature at best and racist at worst.

that's probablly right. That's why I didn't say 'all Muslims are terrorists'. I didn't even suggest it. You might think I did because you want to see that. I was, as I said later, redressing the balance.

I agree you did not say all Muslims are terrorists but your list highlighted that all the people you mentioned were Muslims, but why was it important for you to mention that fact each time.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

BTW I think we need controlled immigration, just not the BNPs version of it. I also disagree with either forced or even voluntary mass repatriation. If people choose to back to their country of origin that's good, I just think its morally questionable to have a policy that either enforces or invites mass repatriation, even if we give money to enable it.

[opgpat]

To correct you the accepted spelling is The Holy Qur'an. Do we have to be pedantic about this? Koran is perfectly acceptable as it's an English phonetic translation. Do you call curry 'curry' or use the Tamil word khari ???


You said: 'your list highlighted that all the people you mentioned were Muslims, but why was it important for you to mention that fact each time.'

I can't see a single use of the word Muslim in my post except in the newspaper article headline so I honestly don't know what you mean. I have no idea if Fayed is a Muslim and doubt Robert Maxwell was one considering he is burried on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem!

[opgpat]

Home timely is THIS?! Tommorrow night 9pm BBC1

http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/listings/bbc-1/2010-02-24/21-00/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Day the Immigrants Left

Evan Davis explores the effects of immigration in the UK by focusing on Wisbech, a town in Cambridgeshire. Since 2004 this once prosperous market town has received up to 9,000 immigrants seeking work, but nearly 2,000 unemployed locals blame foreign workers for their predicament. As an experiment, immigrant employees are temporarily removed from their jobs, and the work given to the local unemployed.

[norbert]

Home timely is THIS?! Tommorrow night 9pm BBC1

http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/listings/bbc-1/2010-02-24/21-00/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Day the Immigrants Left

Evan Davis explores the effects of immigration in the UK by focusing on Wisbech, a town in Cambridgeshire. Since 2004 this once prosperous market town has received up to 9,000 immigrants seeking work, but nearly 2,000 unemployed locals blame foreign workers for their predicament. As an experiment, immigrant employees are temporarily removed from their jobs, and the work given to the local unemployed.

saw that in the paper - apparently some of them were a right hopeless shower

[clashcityrocker]

And the ad at the bottom of the page is now for interracial romance.

[Tman]

And some people clearly emigrate to continue a life of crime yet nobody is using it as an argument for an end to emigration.

What sort of point is that? There never has been (as far as I'm aware) any calls ever to "end emigration" even if it were possible or legal. Any links to articles etc about these career-criminal emigrants?
Then again, are you really trying to imply some UK residents go to the US, Oz or NZ etc to "continue a life of crime", when many/most find those country's far more stringent entry requirements onerous enough anyway?
Straws a' clutching....