POSTMAN wrote:I think we need to find out when and if theses D2D's are going to be in sleeves or not.
If they are in sleeves then yes it's easier to prep.
If they are as they are now,then we're going to be f****d.
Postman...You've hit the nail on the head...This is the KEY element of D2D into workload. They have to come pre wrapped as 1 item. anything else will be a disaster and completely un workable.
Have to say you really are clutching at straws if you think D2D will ever come pre-packed. "just tell them we are looking into pre-packing ,they'll swallow it then"
Why not?
RM investing in more new machinery to make your job easier? Costs them nothing to get you to do it.
Advertisers don't want their promo stuff bundled with others ,don't forget some are paying well over 6p an item right now ,much more than they pay for a magazine insert.
Don't think there is a machine in the land that could prepare and package the variety of crap that we deliver ,leaflets ;pens ;sachets ;boxes ;magazines;plastic bags.
I just feel sorry for the first poor bugger who ends up working unpaid till midnight or conduct coded because he was snowed under with 20 disparate D2D's in one week. Most of us know that with RM if it can happen it will happen
Hey, Belial, I'm not exactly expecting D2D's to come pre-packed, Just discussing it because it has been talked about as something that could happen. I'll only believe it when I see it....I know this will probably never happen with royalmail . So we are back to needing more hours put back into offices to cope with D2D into workload....I know what the next point will be...Royalmail will never put hours back in. Well, ok then....they'll pay for D2D into workload some where along the line....I for one won't work past my time because I've had to prep 6 D2Ds. So they'll have to get someone doing the bit I leave on overtime.
Exactly ghostman. Something will have to give and it wont be me cos my duty already takes me to my time
Well less than twenty four hours to go now according to dingo tomorrow is the day the talks reach the ultimate conclusion.
There will then be the reading of the 60 (?) page agreement plus Appendices - maybe we should get a solicitor versed in employment matters to give it a quick scan and just rip out the salient points for we mere posties to have a look at.
Not exactly "as they see fit" Tman but the end result may be the same.
Indeed. We've all seen and heard of the "way things should be done" in our firm and employment generally, and we've also probably all seen how these things work in reality. The processes can be very different...
A lot of pages been added since i last trawled through this thread(which was Friday) and its gone in to a section of its own.Now i aint had time to look through the last 15 or so pages,but the few postings i have read would say to an outsider looking in that a deal/agreement has been done,but as far as i last knew,it needs to go to the PEC next week(i believe) to be endorsed or thrown out.......is that still to happen or have i spent far to much time up the pub this weekend
Plenty of questions aimed atme. Easy ones first dirvers allowance is not included in the supplement and remains as now a payment which is decreasing in value in real terms with a limited amount of drivers still recieving it.
With regards to standards for indoor work , there is a commitment to agree standards within the next 3 weeks to go out to ballot with the new agreement.
The standards which Royal Mail want and to be fair some offices are already achieving is 1100 items per hour on the ips ( all work combined ) and 16 prep rate per minute inclusive of taking work from the frame, preping , dead letters , redirections , tieing up and weighing.
Higson is obssesed with standards and his desire is to ge everyone to an 100 bsi over the next 3 years. Over half of all offices are above 90%. The union has not agreed to the planning values of the indoor workload tool and will work with Royal mail to agree what standards they should be as part of this agreement.
Now lets get one thing straight , door to door in its present form is dead, regardless of whether there is an agreement or not. Royal Mail"s board have taken a decison that they can no longer continue to treadwater in a market which is growing and bucking the trend in the mails market.
Anyone who thinks it is going to are in for a massive shock. What avenues are there open to the empolyer putting it into workload without paying you as you have been employed to deliver mail and as long as it is within your contracted hours then that is one route they wanted to do so.
The union has achieved both a payment and it to be factored into workload which will cost them. Look I know most members will doubt this but this is a very profitable market and Royal Mail know that the only way they are going to expand is to ensure they improve quality and for everyone in the industry to give the product more of a priority. I have heard some call this market a cheap and rubbish part of the market , but can you imagine any car plant refusing to make a car cause it was cheap. The fact is door to door may well be the difference between some of our members having a part time job and the full time job.
Look at those numbers of IPS and prep and imagine when you only have 60% of work which you currently do in your delivery office at 0600 and you dont recieve the remaining 40% until 10 o clock in the morning. Ask a member there who is not due to start until 0830 whether he would like to start eariier then that by having door to door into workload ?
Plus lets examine the saturday issue in full , mail sort 3 is hardly around in any delvery unit as its has been lost to downstream access, Saturday traffic is on par with Fridays and a lot more then Monday and Tuesday , yet most units do the work in less hours then now, Yes I know most will say they do so as there is an incentive and they work harder. However Royal Mail s answer is well we dont need so many hours in the week to do the same traffic levels.
The union has attempted to argue at every point about saturdays but Royal Mail have said they have not bought the machines to run idle as they have in all trail units on saturdays. The union has therefore got a commitment for all delivery staff to have to work less saturdays the details will be in the agreement and are a fundremental part of any future agreement with a menu of options for staff to have less saturdays at work. Remember not all staff will have to work much later it will depend on where your office is in the sequencing plan and where a walk is in the batch system. Plus later saturdays will not apply until your office has walk sequencing in any case.
Now the problem the union has had is every time they have tried to get the work into offices early including the 40% of work, Royal Mail have responded by saying they could adopt the DUTCH delivery model by not having any walk sequneced between midnight and 0600 and start all 100% of work at 0600 which would mean some delivery offices not recieving anything until after 11 in the morning which would make the job in the main part time.
Now with regards to past walk sequencing sites they were including Bristol and Gatwick different as it did not included one outward pass in mail centres and the machines did not run on saturdays or Mondays and no revisons were conducted in delivery units based on the full walk sequencing model.
My fear and it is an honest fear that some of our members do not understand the scale of change which is coming regardless of whether there is a national agreement or not.
dingo wrote
"Plenty of questions aimed atme. Easy ones first dirvers allowance is not included in the supplement and remains as now a payment which is decreasing in value in real terms with a limited amount of drivers still recieving it."
So why has Drivers allowance been protected but early shift allowance not?
Some feckin grandfather rights they turned out to be.
This D2D supplement has decreased in value to me in real terms by £12.37 already and i haven't even recieved it yet.
Dingo are the talks concluded tomorrow or not? You now state that "in the next three weeks" & "to go out to ballot with the the new agreement" does that mean the talks are not concluded tomorrow and we now have another three weeks to wait to see the "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" agreement?
I mean we've waited for much more than 3 months so another 3 weeks doesn't seem that long IF we are given a concrete reason why these talks are stalled.
and 16 prep rate per minute inclusive of taking work from the frame, preping , dead letters , redirections , tieing up and weighing.
.
Are you sure you didn't mean 16 prep rate exclusive of etc...?
A walk of 1200 items prepped and bagged and everything else in 75 minutes?
Is this without WSM or only once WSM is brought in?
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
i certainly understand the poo that royal mail finds itself in and the poo that us it's employees find ourselves in through no fault of our own
BUT
it's fine putting d2d into workload, if that's what is going to keep me in a job for the next however many years
BUT
what happens if we're doing 2 lots a day, 5 days a week? If RM grows its market share of D2D by say 40% will we the people who deliver it receive an increase in the supplement, bonuses for delivering etc.
only bright point i can see from the d2d in workload/increase of d2d is we shouldn't have to do absorption/summer savings because we're going every house everyday?
I get the feeling that RM is trying to move us into a bonus driven culture. bonus for not cutting off, bonus for not being off sick, bonus for being under budget, bonus for not booking excess etc etc.
As for Dingo thanks for the updates, i might not agree with alot of it but i appreciate what you're doing. Now i have a question regarding bonuses. At the moment in my delivery office we don't receive a penny all year in bonuses, so does the new agreement include bonuses that can actually be achieved?
fishtank wrote:dingo wrote
"Plenty of questions aimed atme. Easy ones first dirvers allowance is not included in the supplement and remains as now a payment which is decreasing in value in real terms with a limited amount of drivers still recieving it."
So why has Drivers allowance been protected but early shift allowance not?
Some feckin grandfather rights they turned out to be.
This D2D supplement has decreased in value to me in real terms by £12.37 already and i haven't even recieved it yet.
The issue with early shift allowance is this , no one who joined the bussiness after 2007 will get the payment , plus after walk sequencing is in place very few people will need to start either before 0600 let alone 0500.
The union took a decision that we cant have another allowance which never increases in the future and loses it value. Whereas in a supplement it can be increased.
In terms of losing I think you have to look at the whole package and judge it on that not on sums of money which are not factual in the first place.
fishtank wrote:dingo wrote
"Plenty of questions aimed atme. Easy ones first dirvers allowance is not included in the supplement and remains as now a payment which is decreasing in value in real terms with a limited amount of drivers still recieving it."
So why has Drivers allowance been protected but early shift allowance not?
Some feckin grandfather rights they turned out to be.
This D2D supplement has decreased in value to me in real terms by £12.37 already and i haven't even recieved it yet.
The issue with early shift allowance is this , no one who joined the bussiness after 2007 will get the payment , plus after walk sequencing is in place very few people will need to start either before 0600 let alone 0500.
The union took a decision that we cant have another allowance which never increases in the future and loses it value. Whereas in a supplement it can be increased.
In terms of losing I think you have to look at the whole package and judge it on that not on sums of money which are not factual in the first place.
No dingo the £12.37 is very factual,that is my early shift allowance and it is about to lose all present and future value in one go.
If you think i am accepting whatever D2D supplement minus £12.37 i would suggest a rethink.
Winners and losers eh.
dvbuk55 wrote:Dingo are the talks concluded tomorrow or not? You now state that "in the next three weeks" & "to go out to ballot with the the new agreement" does that mean the talks are not concluded tomorrow and we now have another three weeks to wait to see the "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" agreement?
I mean we've waited for much more than 3 months so another 3 weeks doesn't seem that long IF we are given a concrete reason why these talks are stalled.
No Tomorrow is the crunch date for whether an agreement is concluded or not. However if there is an agreement then further guidelines have to be agreed and worked up on car derived vans , standards , menu for less saturdays , improved attendances and a couple of others. This will all be covered within the main agreement but the details on these will be worked up.
Even if there is an agreement by tomorrow I doubt if the ballot for the members will commence much before the end of march for a number of reasons , the PEC will decide , the divisonal reps will be consulted , national and regional briefings will be held , the agreement will be sent out to all members and prepartion for the ballot will have to take place with popluaris running the independent ballot. Of course this will allow all these issues to be agreed as well and Branch"s to hold meetings on whether they will recommend to their members to accept or reject it.
fishtank wrote:dingo wrote
"Plenty of questions aimed atme. Easy ones first dirvers allowance is not included in the supplement and remains as now a payment which is decreasing in value in real terms with a limited amount of drivers still recieving it."
So why has Drivers allowance been protected but early shift allowance not?
Some feckin grandfather rights they turned out to be.
This D2D supplement has decreased in value to me in real terms by £12.37 already and i haven't even recieved it yet.
The issue with early shift allowance is this , no one who joined the bussiness after 2007 will get the payment , plus after walk sequencing is in place very few people will need to start either before 0600 let alone 0500.
The union took a decision that we cant have another allowance which never increases in the future and loses it value. Whereas in a supplement it can be increased.
In terms of losing I think you have to look at the whole package and judge it on that not on sums of money which are not factual in the first place.
No dingo the £12.37 is very factual,that is my early shift allowance and it is about to lose all present and future value in one go.
If you think i am accepting whatever D2D supplement minus £12.37 i would suggest a rethink.
Winners and losers eh.
For the record fishtank the early shift payments ceased in 2007 what you recieve now is a reserved rights payment , it is no longer based on whether you start at 0500 or 0530. The union managed to keep you that payment when Royal Mail only wanted you to get a maximum of 3 years protection.
The choice is this do we see this reserved rights payment deciline in real terms creating a two tier workforce in each of the delivery units who have it or do the union capture this money and then see it increase in the way that pay rises in the future can see percentage rises in all areas of the supplement.
Like I said you need to see the agreement before you slag it off.
fishtank wrote:dingo wrote
"Plenty of questions aimed atme. Easy ones first dirvers allowance is not included in the supplement and remains as now a payment which is decreasing in value in real terms with a limited amount of drivers still recieving it."
So why has Drivers allowance been protected but early shift allowance not?
Some feckin grandfather rights they turned out to be.
This D2D supplement has decreased in value to me in real terms by £12.37 already and i haven't even recieved it yet.
ALso why do all the old phgs get to keep there grandfather rights forever? And why the do drivers get a higher basic than everyone else??
Costs them nothing to get you to do it.
. So we are back to needing more hours put back into offices to cope with D2D into workload....I know what the next point will be...Royalmail will never put hours back in.
Well, ok then....they'll pay for D2D into workload some where along the line....I for one won't work past my time because I've had to prep 6 D2Ds. So they'll have to get someone doing the bit I leave on overtime.
