UPDATE FROM HQ

[fishtank]

Just to break even this week the supplement would have to be £41.30 and i am certainly not going to agree to the lifting of the D2D cap to break even.
It's all very well saying i would get a supplement 52 weeks a year but i get my allowances 52 weeks a year so surely this would benefit me less than say,someone who doesn't get any allowances.

Fishtank, I'm interested to know your views on this...if the supplement for D2D's was £41.30, and the revision was done PROPERLY to give enough time to prep the D2D and you could finish your walk on time with no bullying and harrassment would you accept the £41.30 with the cap lifted? I should add that I don't trust management to implement a revision properly! My own view is that if i could get finished on time not having to run around I would accept a flat supplement for all. one thing I would add...if we end up delivering 6 items...then the product is obviously working...and we're doing our bit by upping the quality of the product.....I'd be expecting a share of the product growth...ie higher supplement. (perhaps i'm naieve in this view)

In truth i probably would.
Fair and achievable workloads have always been a higher priority for me anyway.
But i would want a share in future growth of the D2D market an increase in the supplement at 5 or 6 D2Ds sounds about right.
And i would want an end to the twin evils of absorbtion and flexibility.
They are far to "woolly" to be contained in any agreement i would enter into with Royal Mail.

[Cut Off King]

\GHOSTman wrote

As I said earlier, If and it's a BIG IF managment did address the discrepency, D2D into work load could work. But whether we can trust management to address the issue is obviously very debateable. They've shown no reason why they would start to behave rationally towards revisions of walks.

If D2D was included into workload ( eg if your office traffic is about 100,000 , but now that D2D is included in the figures its measured as say 120,000 ) Do you honestly think that RM will put hours back into offices to allow everyone to finish on time ?

OR, will they simply just move the goalposts and say that office traffic has gone down to 80,000 + 20,000 D2D's = NO extra hours needed in the office.

Anyone who then can't complete within time will be harrassed for "performance issues"

PS - Didn't the CWU say that they wanted an independant body to look at workload / reasonable work rate? Whatever happened to that idea ?
Its not been mentioned lately, maybe its been shelfed for further discussion at a later date!

cut off king. TBH I don't trust royalmail one little bit. I've seen to many botched revisions over the last 10+ years to last a lifetime. it's all just a bit of a theoretical debate on here, all... if this ...what if that.....will this. In answer to your question, no i dont believe any hours will get put back in mate.

Where does this leave us?, I know the rounds are to big at present, and i'm sick of the constant battles with managers.

I have questioned several doms / managers - Not one thought RM would be putting back hours, most were under the impression that further hours were to be removed from offices.

[GHOSTman]

I have questioned several doms / managers - Not one thought RM would be putting back hours, most were under the impression that further hours were to be removed from offices.

Yeah, you're right on that one. In our office they've produced a business plan for 2010/11 where they have to cut hours. On the door 2 door in to workload I suppose we should ask ourselves if we can trust Royalmail to implement it correctly....I do worry this deal wil be like doing a deal with the devil. ...right, on that note...time for a few beers....enjoy the rest of your evening chaps! back to the fun house on monday...can't wait.

[Danelectro]

In truth i probably would.
Fair and achievable workloads have always been a higher priority for me anyway.
But i would want a share in future growth of the D2D market an increase in the supplement at 5 or 6 D2Ds sounds about right.
And i would want an end to the twin evils of absorbtion and flexibility.
They are far to "woolly" to be contained in any agreement i would enter into with Royal Mail.

aye fair and achievable workloads is the main thing on most of our minds in my office and that includes the nightmares that come in early,take short cuts etc.Though as you have pointed out earlier the more you get the more you prep,so if there is to be an independant fair workload calculation(is there gonna be!?) there must also be a maximum amount of d2d for each duty or you the problem of having to cut off or being forced to work OT(the half hour flex clause becomes compulsory maybe?) and if the product grows the duties would be in a constant state of change which is what pisses most folk off at present.

So if a duty has 900 x 5 d2d and they only manage to sell/book 2 that week does that mean you would be finishing early that week? and if they sold 7 would OT/cut off be needed. I dont get it

[pickaname]

D2D into workload will be the biggest stitch up the union ever agreed to. Its ripe for managers to abuse.

Watch this space.

[Lincox]

What about the banking of hours which was supposed to be part of the 2007 final talks. We have people in our office that have been banking hours for ni on 3 years as we were told that this was part of the 2007 initial agreement. I believe they have given RM £000 in lost overtime that they should have rightly booked. If they have done 3 hours during the week and given back 2 on a Sturday they have only been booking 1 hr. Dingo, what part has this got to play in the national agreement that is being discussed.

[BELIAL]

Agree to banking ,agree to longs and shorts and the next step is you will be on call

[fishtank]

What about the banking of hours which was supposed to be part of the 2007 final talks. We have people in our office that have been banking hours for ni on 3 years as we were told that this was part of the 2007 initial agreement. I believe they have given RM £000 in lost overtime that they should have rightly booked. If they have done 3 hours during the week and given back 2 on a Sturday they have only been booking 1 hr. Dingo, what part has this got to play in the national agreement that is being discussed.

There are always things rattling about in negotiations that are untouchables.
Banking hours and monthly pay have been the lepers of the last two deals.
The union is well aware that within an hour of signing an agreement on banking hours Billy and Dave would be the last two members of the CWU and would have to switch the lights off themselves.

[Big Daz]

You missed a issue

The Loan!!!

[BELIAL]

Is that the £800 billion loan to the banks? the one that everybody else apart from the banks will have to repay.
Or the £1.2 billion loan to RM which doesn't even cover the amount taken out of the business via extraordinary dividend or oops missed pension payments

[Big Daz]

Is that the £800 billion loan to the banks? the one that everybody else apart from the banks will have to repay.
Or the £1.2 billion loan to RM which doesn't even cover the amount taken out of the business via extraordinary dividend or oops missed pension payments

The 1.2 billion at commercial rates of interest which means over a quarter of a billion pounds being taken out of RM bank account each year, combine with the pension payments and loss on DSA and group profit levels are not far off 1 billion pounds in theroy!!!

[POSTMAN]

I guarantee you now,there will not be a single revision in the country that will take into account D2D's and walks made smaller.
20% a day is what we roughly do at my place,and when the new deal comes in we will do..........wait for it...........20% a day.

[BELIAL]

Cheers DAZ ,so the govt . effectively knicked £4 billion from our pensions and then agreed to lend us back £1.2 billion of money that was rightfully ours but at commercial rates of interest.
Thats the last time I borrow money from me, it's a rip off

[smokerjim]

Cheers DAZ ,so the govt . effectively knicked £4 billion from our pensions and then agreed to lend us back £1.2 billion of money that was rightfully ours but at commercial rates of interest.
Thats the last time I borrow money from me, it's a rip off

Here's a simple explanation of how this country's big businesses and services work now - the bosses and the money men get the gold mine, the workers and the taxpayer get the shaft.

[Puppetmaster]

Like mentioned above RM i thought we were meant to get a independent person to monitor the work load ETC.

WE HAVE NO CHANCE ON THIS!

Our office is having its latest revision,the proposed walks at 3.50 hours earlier this year looked more like 5.5 hours duties.

We keep asking the Managers and The Planning team to Test the walks,the Planning team STATE RM will not allow the walks to be tested,unbeleivable.

When we had Pegus 1 , huge chunks of work were brought back ,intialy managers were OK with it then after a few days when their were mountains of mail,
Things got very nasty ,and they could not understand the problems .DOM got very nasty.

Result had another slighty faireer revision and DOM got blamed for every thing and got chopped.

It was a very difficlt time ,it was obvious to anyone who had done a deilvery recently these walks were too big for the time given.

This is why we must have the walks tested under normal proper conditions .

1 of the planning Managers who has never done a walk in their life,admitted they had tested a walk unofficially the other day and it macthed the computers results.

The trial by a Planning Manager consisted of walking up to peoples front doors.
It did not consit of prepping any mail .
It did not consist of carrying a bag or pulling a trolley,
It did not consist of even delivering any mail,or knocking on peoples doors.

This is the crap we have to put up with and we have not even started yet,we must have the workload tested.