Is it just me...

[velocity]

Exactly. All LTBs etc are all sent out after the the agreement is signed off! There is no vote.

The last ballot we had was when they tried to make us work later on xmas eve. Years back.

Since then, with all of the network changes, changes to sales, ad infinitum... no vote.

VERY selective memory. There's been loads of votes on different stuff. I take it you didn't get your paper for the pay dispute then? Or the Sales Code of Practice? Or the Sales Incentive Scheme? Just to name three off the top of my head

The trouble with posts like this is that those who don't work in POL might actually believe some of the stuff you write

[billyhayes]

Oh those IMPORTANT changes. Right, yes I forgot about those...

Voted NO on each one old chum

Pay dispute - was a pay CUT in real terms. Take away the next 20-odd years of saturday premium for a one off payment of £4600, no thanks.

Sales code - Has been progressively degraded, ie, sold out, by the POL puppets at HQ. Outdated according to them! Its all we got you clowns!

Sales Incentive - Its showed itself up for the shower of shite that it is. Mass offices getting sweet FA compared to the old scheme cos some numpty didn't spot that the whole thing fell apart due to the reliance on one product, credit cards. Nearly a year wasted and this has only just been 'fixed'. FFS!

Anymore? Off the top of your head?


This is fun.

[Running Man]

Great post billy and you're spot on in every area.
1. Pay dispute- to be fair I think it was a good deal given the economic climate at that time but the Saturday premium, for managers too by the way, was a complete sell out. Yes a nice little lump sum but not when you consider the earning potential of Saturday attendances previous to the deal, especially in offices that open until 1730 on Saturday.
2. Sales Code of Practice- I will simply ask "what Code of Practice and who is interested in it?" Enough said on that one.
3. Sales Incentive Scheme- Agree 100% with billy. This is a ridiculous scheme that generally meant credit card sales = relatively good bonus. Low credit card sales = forget it! Again to be fair the latest adjustment restores at least some fairness to the scheme but it has still been made needlessly complicated, as is the POL way. As I have asked in another post, why on earth did the CWU agree to it AND recommend it to its members?

All of the above and much much more simply leads to an unhappy and resentful workforce at Crown Office level and I'm sure the CAMs can't be skipping into work each day either.
Surely we cannot build a successful business based on resentment and a lack of trust at every level, from Cooky right down to our wonderful tolerant counter staff, most of whom continue to take everything thrown at them and just get on with the job.

[The BFO]

Running Man,

Managers who are sympathetic to the 'resistance' should use all of their guile to keep senior management and union 'gestapo' away from their branches.

Good Luck.

Nice theory. Not quite so easy in practice…

[billyhayes]

...wonderful tolerant counter staff, most of whom continue to take everything thrown at them and just get on with the job.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Running Man,

As a manager, you can tell us how much input branch managers have when it comes to designing new initiatives like the Sales Incentive Scheme. If you are not being consulted, then what are you doing about it?

How hard are you trying to keep your staff happy?

It looks like all your efforts are going in to trying to persuade us that you are a good bloke at heart who hates senior management initiatives but still has to implement them. The reason is obvious. Change can be more easily achieved if it is implemented by people who are trusted by the staff. This is why you are trying to position yourself as 'trustworthy'. This is also the reason that management use the union to deliver bad news.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Velocity,

When is the deadline for nominations for the POL union rep elections?

[bigjames]

Running Man,

As a manager, you can tell us how much input branch managers have when it comes to designing new initiatives like the Sales Incentive Scheme. If you are not being consulted, then what are you doing about it?

How hard are you trying to keep your staff happy?

It looks like all your efforts are going in to trying to persuade us that you are a good bloke at heart who hates senior management initiatives but still has to implement them. The reason is obvious. Change can be more easily achieved if it is implemented by people who are trusted by the staff. This is why you are trying to position yourself as 'trustworthy'. This is also the reason that management use the union to deliver bad news.

Most managers have little or no input into such things as the Sales Incentive Scheme, but I think you probably know that already. What do we do about not being consulted? What we always do, we give our feedback through the available channels in the almost certain knowledge that it will make no difference whatsoever. But that is hardly new is it? In my time as a manager, the one group of people who are almost universally ignored are the managers. Does it bother me? - Yes. Can I do anything about it? - probably not. Does it stop me getting on with my job? - absolutely not.

It strikes me that Running Man can't win - if he says he agrees with the people at the top he'll be berated on here. He comes on and makes some valid points about it not just being CWU grades getting shafted and somehow that is wrong too. What is wrong with trusting your manager? If he/she is doing their job properly you should be able to trust them. Granted not all managers are saints, but there are some good people amongst us who are trying to strike a balance between, as you put it "keeping the staff happy" and trying to get the job done, which isn't easy.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Managers,

Your job is to get as much work out of your staff for as little money as possible. If you can persuade the staff to trust you and see you as a friend then they will find it difficult to refuse your requests. It is called emotional blackmail.

How can staff trust people whose role is to 'shaft' them?

Surely, the more trust they give, the easier it is to 'shaft' them.

Managers are not suffering even a fraction of what the staff are suffering.

When a cash centre quite a distance away was closed, we had to absorb a load of their managers therefore closing off our opportunities for promotion. When I discovered that staff had lost money because management claimed they were not aware of MTSF2 and the substitution policy, no disciplinary action was taken against anyone in management. At the same time, CWU grades are being dismissed for the most minor infringements, as was recently highlighted in the House of Commons.

What about your bonus payments?

You make us work harder for less money so that you get rewarded. On top of this, you want us to trust you. You are taking the piss.

Finally, what is it with managers and football teams?

I used to go to football when it was affordable. There used to be a section of the crowd in seats and before every game the question was always asked:

"Who's the w*****s in the seats?"

Now I know the answer, RM managers in their team shirts. Green Army.

[bigjames]

What about your bonus payments?

You make us work harder for less money so that you get rewarded. On top of this, you want us to trust you. You are taking the piss.
RM managers in their team shirts. Green Army.

Can I assume from your reply that you work for the Royal Mail side of the business? If so most of what you describe is true from what I can see. This thread/forum is Post Office , i.e. Counters, and whilst a lot of what is wrong in the business crosses the company boundaries, there is a lot that is different.

One stark difference is my bonus payments. You ask "What about your bonus payments?", and in return, I ask you the same question, what about them? On the counter side the Incentive Scheme as it is referred to gives me nothing, while my team usually get a payment, so if that is "taking the piss" as you put it, who is taking it out of whom? In a previous scheme that was introduced, all the CWU grades got a payment for each sale of certain products, regardless of whether the target was reached = fair enough. My bonus scheme was based on reaching the target, and despite the fact that a sizeable proportion of the sales achieved in my office were actually achieved by myself and my assistant (before the days of FSS's) we got nothing, because we didn't hit the target.

Don't tar all Counter Managers with the same brush that you use for the RM ones.

[MinisterofCucumber]

Cash centres are part of POL.

Our managers received large bonus payments. One of them spent his bonus on a trip to Goa and had his teeth fixed. When he came back, his pearly grin emphasised his status by contrasting with the manky, yellowing teeth of his staff. Our managers' bonus payments were based on savings made by breaking RM group policies.

To be fair to our line managers, most of them were not aware that policies had been broken because they are too thick to understand them and they trust what senior management tell them.

[counter man]

Minister....Do you have a general dislike of managers.............

Surely the whole aim if for us to work together to keep our jobs....and if increasing sales is the way to go and secure that then count me in. Most managers in POL have been counter staff, ( and indeed friends) first. We have no problem going out for a drink at the end of a long day. Whats wrong with them progressing and if by doing that it brings us along then where is the harm in that. We got a new BM in June.....last year my total bonus was just about £70.... every quarter this year we have exceeded £200.....and I put a lot of that down to her and the way she manages the branch. And before you ask, we do not get beaten with a stick. Perhaps its different in cash centres, and if it is I pity you.

I look forward to you response,

[MinisterofCucumber]

No, I don't have a general dislike of managers. I have a great deal of respect for managers that know their job and don't lie to staff.

The reality is that your manager has power over you and you can't get away from this relationship even when you are drunk. I don't have a problem with people socialising with managers or anyone of any status, I just think it is unwise for staff to socialise with their own managers. Why risk the problems associated with cliques and favouritism? What about staff who don't want to socialise or who don't drink?

I am glad you have a decent manager. My advice is to maintain a 'professional' relationship with your manager, based on mutual trust. If you want a good social life, you need to put in the effort and be a bit brave. You will get more out of it if you look beyond the 'lazy' option.

[counter man]

Well I have to disagree on some points..and agree on others.

Managers dont have power over us....unless we allow them to. So if you do your job, to a good standad what can they do? MUP? No....Disciplinary? No...
True higher managers make decisions that effect us....many we dont agree on....but that happens in business.

I agree there are some bad ones out there, as has been mentioned in previous posts, and its up to the CAM's to address this.

However....if you have worked alongside a colleague for a number of years on the front line, who was part of your team I dont have an issue going out for a drink with them if in later years they become your manager....maybe we are in the fortunate position to have one we all trust, and I think a lot of that comes from working with her as a clerk.

[POSTMAN]

May i jump in, my local BO hate their manager with a passion.