UPDATE FROM HQ

[dvbuk55]

If there is an agreement then it will contained a national agreement on geo route. Yes I do blame offices and Branch`s for doing deals on peagsus in the past because that has made it harder to get a national agreement. Royal Mail`s response was why do we need a national agreement when offices are agreeing to the use of the system.

Lets face facts we carried a national policy that no one should use peagsus until there was a national agreement and then offices and Branch`s then went out and done deals on peagsus thinking they would beat the computer.

When did this come into being as I wish to check the date against the agreement for pegasus revisions in the PE and CB postcode areas. I belive the agreement was made 2007 so if the national policy came into force after area agreements were made what should have happeend to those area agreements? Planning on pegasus at my D.O commenced Feb 2008 and was implemented November 2008 after the membership in my D.O voted yes.

That's my point about people rewriting history - there was no decision not to cooperate until February of 2009 - a bit bloody late and then to be accused of being weak offices and caving in is too bloody rich for me - especially from a group that have been consistently cosseted and protected from the changes by being on CWU HQs doorstep.

[Big Daz]

Dingo

You wrote this (see below) and in the same post insinuated you have been bullied on this site, however are you not becoming a bully yourself by your comments to Mr W


Wrangled those who know me know I am far from arrogant , however you on the other hand I know a lot about and the way you snipe on here is a reflection of you as a person.

[POSTMAN]

ffs what is going on with you lot,you moan about lack of info,others stick their neck out to give it to you and because you don't like what they say,you throw a wobbly.

The world is changing,RM is changing,they are changing the way we work and have invested s**t loads of money to do it.
We aint going to get away with that,at least the CWU are trying to soften the blow.

But then as Dingo has asked,what do you think should be done?

Oh and one last thing if you don't like the deal,vote NO,and get as many as you can to do the same!

[POSTMAN]

Dingo

You wrote this (see below) and in the same post insinuated you have been bullied on this site, however are you not becoming a bully yourself by your comments to Mr W


Wrangled those who know me know I am far from arrogant , however you on the other hand I know a lot about and the way you snipe on here is a reflection of you as a person.

Suprised at this Daz.Where has this come from.

[Big Daz]

Its come from nowhere.

It just seems a bit of double standards to me thats all.

Mr W may be no angel but thats no excuse for standards to be lowered is it?

Two wrongs dont make a right.

[wranglered]

Its come from nowhere.

It just seems a bit of double standards to me thats all.

Mr W may be no angel but thats no excuse for standards to be lowered is it?

Two wrongs dont make a right.

fair comment big daz...mr postman - it comes from a dingo post yesterday....

being able to take matters on the chin, I did not come bleating to you about it...

however...I did make a response to him that you or the moderators deemed to delete...

as far as I am concerned it was ridiculous to remove it...but there again, a lot of my posts either get deleted or moved to somewhere like the canteen...

this is, according to you, for anyone who has an interest, not just CWU members who spout off the party line...

you know that some of these so-called informers/leakers are anti RMC...let's have some even handedness...

[Big Daz]

But then as Dingo has asked,what do you think should be done?

Oh and one last thing if you don't like the deal,vote NO,and get as many as you can to do the same!

But will we get the chance to do so, further back in this topic dingo said that will not be a vote without a agreement, well sorry but i dont pay my subs for strikes to be suspended with 3 months of talks get close to agreement and then because its not quite as good as the PEC and/or the officers would like, not get vote. If the powers that be are as a close as we are told they are, then there is a moral duty to ensure whatever is on the table is put out to vote.

[POSTMAN]

tbh i don't give a f**k who is anti RMC,if others don't like what the workers/members are saying,tough.

[POSTMAN]

But then as Dingo has asked,what do you think should be done?

Oh and one last thing if you don't like the deal,vote NO,and get as many as you can to do the same!

But will we get the chance to do so, further back in this topic dingo said that will not be a vote without a agreement, well sorry but i dont pay my subs for strikes to be suspended with 3 months of talks get close to agreement and then because its not quite as good as the PEC and/or the officers would like, not get vote. If the powers that be are as a close as we are told they are, then there is a moral duty to ensure whatever is on the table is put out to vote.

Bit confused,we will get to vote on it won't we?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

But then as Dingo has asked,what do you think should be done?

Oh and one last thing if you don't like the deal,vote NO,and get as many as you can to do the same!

But will we get the chance to do so, further back in this topic dingo said that will not be a vote without a agreement, well sorry but i dont pay my subs for strikes to be suspended with 3 months of talks get close to agreement and then because its not quite as good as the PEC and/or the officers would like, not get vote. If the powers that be are as a close as we are told they are, then there is a moral duty to ensure whatever is on the table is put out to vote.

Bit confused,we will get to vote on it won't we?

As I understand it we will only get a chance to vote on the agreement once the PEC have endorsed it and released it to the members.

What happens if the PEC don't endorse it, and or there is a gap between RM and the CWUs position I don't have a clue.

[fishtank]

ffs what is going on with you lot,you moan about lack of info,others stick their neck out to give it to you and because you don't like what they say,you throw a wobbly.

The world is changing,RM is changing,they are changing the way we work and have invested s**t loads of money to do it.
We aint going to get away with that,at least the CWU are trying to soften the blow.

But then as Dingo has asked,what do you think should be done?

Oh and one last thing if you don't like the deal,vote NO,and get as many as you can to do the same!

I think the members want unbiased official information POSTMAN.
Not in my opinion a sales pitch.
We are well aware of the changes facing us all,Some of us have already seen more of these changes than others.
But we were promised by taking I/A that we would at least have a say in these changes.
That has,for most of us been an empty promise.
What do i think should be done?
Well without the time or resources available due to my work commitments its a rather cheap shot.
But my number one priority would be protecting the working conditions of my members.
I am not convinced that increasing workload,delivery spans and longer/later saturdays achieves that aim.

[dvbuk55]

That's a question asked long ago - What if it's a No vote - only to be told that there would be no chance of that because historically there has never been a No vote and so we would be accepting the deal as put forward to the membership. We all know that there was a split decision on the 2007/9 agreement by the PEC but they were "persuaded" to go along with it and some were sent out on the road to secure support for it from areas and branchs. A bit like the whips in parliament.

However like parliament if the deal is such that the PEC do not want to recommend it then the membership should be given the facts and a free vote without any pressure being applied - if it's a NO then we go back to industrial action only this time there will be no calling it off on empty promises - this time it really will be sh*t or bust, as it should have been last time.

The so called interim agreement - only the leadership thought that was a sane move and it has led to inconclusive talks, which initially were going to be resolved early December - well here we are at the later stages of February. So the question I would like answered is if agreement in the offing was sufficiently imperative to call off industrial action then why are the talks still going ahead 3 months later? Some cynics may even go so far as to say there was no deal just a strike free Christmas and would they be wrong?

[Big Daz]

However like parliament if the deal is such that the PEC do not want to recommend it then the membership should be given the facts and a free vote without any pressure being applied - if it's a NO then we go back to industrial action

With you all the way on that dvbuk55

[clashcityrocker]

if it's a NO then we go back to industrial action only this time there will be no calling it off on empty promises - this time it really will be sh*t or bust,

But what if the outcome is sh!t. The trade union movement isn't strong enough - there isn't going to be a National Strike.
From what some posters have said about the level of support in their offices I am not sure the CWU is strong enough to call an all-out strike.
History is against us - the law will be used against us, strikebreakers will be brought in again, and everything from the increase in p/t workers to Thatcher's right to buy policy makes an all-out strike a virtual non-starter.
I might agree with you but if I had a position of responsibility within the CWU hierarchy I would think very carefully before taking my members down that road.

[dvbuk55]

if it's a NO then we go back to industrial action only this time there will be no calling it off on empty promises - this time it really will be sh*t or bust,

But what if the outcome is sh!t. The trade union movement isn't strong enough - there isn't going to be a National Strike.
From what some posters have said about the level of support in their offices I am not sure the CWU is strong enough to call an all-out strike.
History is against us - the law will be used against us, strikebreakers will be brought in again, and everything from the increase in p/t workers to Thatcher's right to buy policy makes an all-out strike a virtual non-starter.
I might agree with you but if I had a position of responsibility within the CWU hierarchy I would think very carefully before taking my members down that road.

I said sh*t or bust and I meant it. If it means wild catting, court action, union funds sequestered, fines and union officers jailed then that's what it takes - we pay them, the monies are ours. We do not pay for lip service and collusion with Royal Mail and the Government.

We either believe the fight is right or we don't - the time for indecision is long gone. Some bloke has a line on here that it is better to fight and die than live life on your knees - he's right - I think there has been enough genuflection latterly to last us a lifetime.